|
Post by sunny.side.up on Apr 14, 2002 13:55:54 GMT -5
>>Read the Kinsey report, he said the same thing that sex with children is okay.<<
Ok, he might have said that, but what does it have to do with homosexuality? Besides, I don't think that any sane person would agree with pedophilia - with pedophilia, harm is done to the child. With homosexuality (with two adult males or females), no harm is done. >>You're probably right. Soon it will be Quote, UNQuote, Normal, then the people who find pedophilia quote, unquote, bad, will be shouted down or labled as a religious nut and "intolorant."<<
Come on, there is no way pedophilia is going to be tolerated. Of course there are a few nuts who are saying that it doesn't hurt the child, but there always have been people like that. Personally, I don't know anyone who would even think of tolerating pedophilia. Why do you think it will be tolerated in the future?? >>We're already there, and it's been going on for a long time.<<
Pedophilia has existed ever since mankind existed. The only difference is that it's not as taboo anymore as it used to be. But that's a good thing. At least now people know what's going on.
You can't compare homosexuality with pedophilia. In the first place, pedophiles usually rape their victims. That's something entirely different than two men or women who love each other, and have a normal relationship. In the second place, noone is harmed in homosexual acts, but children are harmed.
~*Esther*~
|
|
|
Post by pettyluv on Apr 14, 2002 14:27:31 GMT -5
<<Come on, there is no way pedophilia is going to be tolerated. Of course there are a few nuts who are saying that it doesn't hurt the child, but there always have been people like that. Personally, I don't know anyone who would even think of tolerating pedophilia. Why do you think it will be tolerated in the future?? >>>
Because a former Klinton Surgeon General has supported a book that says it is not harmful to a child, and there are other people as well that are trying to normalize this.
|
|
|
Post by It's~A~Nova on Apr 14, 2002 15:00:35 GMT -5
[glow=pink,2,300]Anyone who thinks that it's not harmful to children are probably pedophiles themselves. How can it not be? Though I'm not an expert, most kids who have early sexual experience end up with metal problems, such as depression. And like sunny_snowflake said, most cases of pedophilia are rape cases. How is rape all right? [/glow]
|
|
|
Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 15, 2002 13:17:13 GMT -5
<<Ok, he might have said that, but what does it have to do with homosexuality? >>
Not might, he DID say that. It plays a large part of homosexuality. When another guy comes onto you as a little boy, it messes you up, and that is not a good thing.
<<With homosexuality (with two adult males or females), no harm is done.
Except that the child is mercilessly teased for having two dads or two moms. Like it or not human development is not wired so that any situation will do. If the parents are two dad's, the child does not have a strong mother figure to relate to, and if the child has two mothers, then there is no strong father to relate to. Both a female and male partnership provide the best partnership for well developed children. The better alternative, though harder, is a single parent.
Two men, one serving as a female and one as a male; or two females, one serving as a mother, the other a father, does not work and will never work no matter how much people want to put childhood development and parenting in a box. <<Personally, I don't know anyone who would even think of tolerating pedophilia. Why do you think it will be tolerated in the future?? >>
The same way it is now, very subtly. <<noone is harmed in homosexual acts>>
Forget religious beliefs. AIDS for one -- a higher death rate, the life expectancy of gays are about 15 years less than straight people. Fidelity among gays is very low, it's all about sex. A gay partnership only lasts a few years.
|
|
|
Post by Cassiopeia on Apr 15, 2002 16:22:42 GMT -5
>>Not might, he DID say that. It plays a large part of homosexuality. When another guy comes onto you as a little boy, it messes you up, and that is not a good thing.<<
Yeah, and when a guy comes onto a little girl, it messes her up just as badly. Pedophilia is bad; homosexuality is not. Yes, some pedophiles are gay, but a lot of them are straight too. You can’t say that you disagree with homosexuality because there are gay pedophiles. According to that logic, you’d also have to be against heterosexuality because there are also straight pedophiles. Again, homosexuality and pedophilia are two completely different things.
>>Except that the child is mercilessly teased for having two dads or two moms. Like it or not human development is not wired so that any situation will do. If the parents are two dad's, the child does not have a strong mother figure to relate to, and if the child has two mothers, then there is no strong father to relate to. Both a female and male partnership provide the best partnership for well developed children. The better alternative, though harder, is a single parent.<<
Actually, I think that two gay parents would be more ideal than a single parent. A single parent would most likely have to put their kid in daycare, because they’d have to work. But if there are two parents, gay or straight, one of them can make a living while the other one takes care of the kid.
>>Two men, one serving as a female and one as a male; or two females, one serving as a mother, the other a father, does not work and will never work no matter how much people want to put childhood development and parenting in a box.<<
How do you know it doesn’t work? Also, why would the two gay partners have to serve as different sexes? They’d serve as two men, or two women, which is what they are.
>>Forget religious beliefs. AIDS for one -- a higher death rate, the life expectancy of gays are about 15 years less than straight people. Fidelity among gays is very low, it's all about sex. A gay partnership only lasts a few years.<<
How do you know that it’s all about sex? You’re not gay, so you have no idea what goes through their minds. Did it ever occur to you that the reason that gay partnerships don’t last is because of society’s intolerance of them? It’s hard enough to keep a stable heterosexual relationship, which is socially acceptable. Throw in all the crap that gays experience because of their sexual preference, and it makes it extremely difficult to hold a relationship with someone. Anyway, if it was all about sex, why wouldn’t they just have heterosexual intercourse? I mean, friction is friction. It would still feel the same, and they’d still get the same pleasure out of it. The reason they have sex with people of their gender is because they are attracted to them and also care about them.
|
|
|
Post by LisaRocksYourWorld, yo on Apr 15, 2002 18:31:37 GMT -5
Toxic, you're forgetting that all of the bad points of homosexuality are just as bad, sometimes worse, in heterosexuality. <br> <<When another guy comes onto you as a little boy, it messes you up, and that is not a good thing.>>
It's the same with any sex. Whether you're a male or female being molested by a male or female, the trauma will still be there, regardless of the gender of the molester. <br> <<Except that the child is mercilessly teased for having two dads or two moms.>>
It's a shame that it's this way. In the future, it will be accepted. Interracial relationships were considered wrong just a few years ago, now they're common and accepted by most people. <br> <<If the parents are two dad's, the child does not have a strong mother figure to relate to, and if the child has two mothers, then there is no strong father to relate to. Both a female and male partnership provide the best partnership for well developed children. The better alternative, though harder, is a single parent. >>
I don't necessarily agree with the whole strong mother/father role model theory. I know a lot of screw-ups that come from "normal" households. I know even more kind, intellegent, mentally stable people that come from "dysfunctional" families. <br> Neither you nor I are a homosexual, so we can't possibly imagine what it's like. Maybe if you were close to a homosexual family you would feel differently. If you had a friend or loved one who experienced this prejudice every day, I'm sure your opinion would change. <br> <<Forget religious beliefs. AIDS for one -- a higher death rate, the life expectancy of gays are about 15 years less than straight people. Fidelity among gays is very low, it's all about sex. A gay partnership only lasts a few years.>>
What about the majority of heterosexual relationships? Most marraiges end in divorce today. The dating scene is all about one-night stands. Most relationships last weeks, months, very rarely years. Heterosexuals are just as sex-crazed as anyone else. Homosexuals aren't animals; they're real people, with real feelings, real emotions, and real compassion for their lover, regardless of their gender. Unfortunately, they're not accepted as human beings by many people. If this intolerance continues, they never will be. Gay people aren't much different than you and me; they put their pants on one leg at a time.
|
|
|
Post by It's~A~Nova on Apr 15, 2002 20:15:26 GMT -5
Except that the child is mercilessly teased for having two dads or two moms. Like it or not human development is not wired so that any situation will do. If the parents are two dad's, the child does not have a strong mother figure to relate to, and if the child has two mothers, then there is no strong father to relate to. Both a female and male partnership provide the best partnership for well developed children. The better alternative, though harder, is a single parent. <br>[glow=pink,2,300]So children shouldn't be placed in a loving home because of bullies at school? My brother will be getting braces soon, he'll prolly face some teasing. Should he not get braces then?
And yes, ideally, the place for a child is in a home with a mother and a father but the world's not perfect. In reality a child raised by homosexuals is just about the same as a child raised by a single parent. It's not a better alternative. [/glow]
Forget religious beliefs. AIDS for one -- a higher death rate, the life expectancy of gays are about 15 years less than straight people. Fidelity among gays is very low, it's all about sex. A gay partnership only lasts a few years. [glow=pink,2,300] Do you know AIDS was first started by a heterosexual man? The truth is AIDS is a risk for both homosexual and heterosexual people.
Gay relationships aren't all about sex. Well, some maybe, but some heterosexual relationships are all about sex as well. There's no difference. [/glow]
|
|
|
Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 16, 2002 12:36:54 GMT -5
<< Pedophilia is bad; homosexuality is not.>>
Since when?
<< Yes, some pedophiles are gay, but a lot of them are straight too. You can’t say that you disagree with homosexuality because there are gay pedophiles. According to that logic, you’d also have to be against heterosexuality because there are also straight pedophiles. Again, homosexuality and pedophilia are two completely different things. >>
Both of which are sexually devant. Most pedophiliacs, men, assault younger boys. <<Actually, I think that two gay parents would be more ideal than a single parent. . . . gay or straight, one of them can make a living while the other one takes care of the kid. >>
How would gay parents have children? There's another problem. They can't procreate. If adopted. the child will not grow up with a sense of who he or she is. <<How do you know it doesn’t work? Also, why would the two gay partners have to serve as different sexes? They’d serve as two men, or two women, which is what they are. >>
It doesn't work because neither you nor I or the rest of the human race were born as the result of a homosexual relationship. Having two gay parent/same sex parents does not and will never work. Like it or not, I have a strong sense of self as a male. So it is with other males. We try so hard now to blend the genders and yet get mad at men who are weak. This will increase as more gay men adopt. A child must have a male father and a female mother for proper development. The father to instill discipline and a strong presence in the house so the child knows who is not only boss, but who is the provider. The father can give a child what the mother cannot. A type of strong presence.
The mother has the same role as provider, but she can offer what the father can't: Nurture, a kind of shoulder to rest on, as well as a provider too. Both roles of the mother and father are important.
Like it or not, it takes a man and a woman to have sex and we all know what the rest is about. Raising the child right is very important in his or her development. <<How do you know that it’s all about sex? . . . Anyway, if it was all about sex, why wouldn’t they just have heterosexual intercourse? I mean, friction is friction. It would still feel the same, and they’d still get the same pleasure out of it. The reason they have sex with people of their gender is because they are attracted to them and also care about them. >>
Without getting too graphic, gay men have anal sex. Gay women do it thier way. Or they pleasure each other off, if you know what I mean.
<<Interracial relationships were considered wrong just a few years ago, now they're common and accepted by most people. >>
That's because the relationship is between a man and woman.
<<Maybe if you were close to a homosexual family you would feel differently. If you had a friend or loved one who experienced this prejudice every day, I'm sure your opinion would change. >>
I wouldn't agree with it, but I wouldn't stop being friends with the person either. <<What about the majority of heterosexual relationships? Most marraiges end in divorce today. The dating scene is all about one-night stands. Most relationships last weeks, months, very rarely years. Heterosexuals are just as sex-crazed as anyone else. >>
That's because when things get a little difficult in a marriage, they want to bail out. No one wants to commit anymore because it's not convenient. Either it's stress or low morals; not thinking of the other. No one trusts each other anymore either. As far as dating and relationships, you need a flowchart to figure out what kind of date you're going on, if you can get that far at all because meeting people has become a production.
<<Homosexuals aren't animals; they're real people, with real feelings, real emotions, and real compassion for their lover, regardless of their gender. >>
That isn't the issue.
<<So children shouldn't be placed in a loving home because of bullies at school? My brother will be getting braces soon, he'll prolly face some teasing. Should he not get braces then? >>
Getting braces and having two gay parents are entirely different things. You don't get beat up for having dental work. <<In reality a child raised by homosexuals is just about the same as a child raised by a single parent. It's not a better alternative.>>
About? <<Do you know AIDS was first started by a heterosexual man? The truth is AIDS is a risk for both homosexual and heterosexual people. >>
That may be true but more gays die of AIDS than the rest. Now AIDS has spread so that it affects everyone.
|
|
|
Post by dream10 on Apr 16, 2002 13:09:29 GMT -5
<<A child must have a male father and a female mother for proper development. The father to instill discipline and a strong presence in the house so the child knows who is not only boss, but who is the provider. The father can give a child what the mother cannot. A type of strong presence. >> Can't a woman do this as well? Women can be strong too you know. <<The mother has the same role as provider, but she can offer what the father can't: Nurture, a kind of shoulder to rest on, as well as a provider too. Both roles of the mother and father are important. >> And a man could do that.
<<Homosexuals aren't animals; they're real people, with real feelings, real emotions, and real compassion for their lover, regardless of their gender. That isn't the issue.>> Why not? What is the issue?
|
|
|
Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 16, 2002 13:34:42 GMT -5
<<Can't a woman do this as well? Women can be strong too you know. >>
That's exactly my point: The child must have a strong parent(s). With gay parents, who is the dad and who is the mom?
<<The mother has the same role as provider, but she can offer what the father can't: Nurture, a kind of shoulder to rest on, as well as a provider too. Both roles of the mother and father are important. >>
And a man could do that.>>
True, but neither can do as good a job. Wanna talk to me about hormonal changes and the results of growing up, and all the other stresses that come up just because you're alive? How 'bout I take a young girl out shopping for pads and her first bra. Who would you feel more comfortable talking to about this, me, a man, or a father, or your mother?
You say I can't possibly understand what girls go though during certain stages of thier lives. I'm a guy, and you would be right. I sympathize, but I can't identify. Tell me again a female parent is not needed if they're two male parents. So how is a lesbian couple going to relate to a son who is trying to hang with the guys and grow up with a strong sense of who he is? Does she understand why the kid would rather play with a gender specific toy like a truck? He doesn't understand the social experiments thrust on him by having to play with a Barbie doll. To him it's just a stupid toy. Take the toy guns away, he's going to use a stick. How is the lesbian "father" if you will, going to understand that rejection, dating, stress, hanging with the guys, is sometimes a completely different thing than with girls.
<<Homosexuals aren't animals; they're real people, with real feelings, real emotions, and real compassion for their lover, regardless of their gender. That isn't the issue.>> Why not? What is the issue?
The issue isn't that gays don't feel emotions and are not human. The issue here is why should one accept a gay lifestyle for straight.
|
|
|
Post by dream10 on Apr 16, 2002 13:50:15 GMT -5
<<How 'bout I take a young girl out shopping for pads and her first bra. Who would you feel more comfortable talking to about this, me, a man, or a father, or your mother? >> Well if the girl grew up living with two males and no mother then yes I think she might be comftable doing that with a man.
<<Tell me again a female parent is not needed if they're two male parents. >> A female parent is not needed if there are two male parents. A girl could talk to an aunt or friends about things she doen't want to talk to with a man. And even if there was a female a teenage girl might not talk to her anyway.
<<The issue here is why should one accept a gay lifestyle for straight. >> What differance does it really make to you.
I'm sorry if I sounded rude. I gotta go but I will be back to finsh.
|
|
|
Post by dream10 on Apr 16, 2002 14:24:04 GMT -5
OK I'm back. <<Wanna talk to me about hormonal changes and the results of growing up, and all the other stresses that come up just because you're alive? >> Are you a psychologist?
<<So how is a lesbian couple going to relate to a son who is trying to hang with the guys and grow up with a strong sense of who he is? >> Are parents EVER able to relate to their kids?
<<Does she understand why the kid would rather play with a gender specific toy like a truck? >> I think that she would. Why would it really matter what her child was playing with as long as it's not something like knives...I'm a girl but when I was little I played Turtles with my brothers and then played with my Barbies by myself.
<<The issue here is why should one accept a gay lifestyle for straight. >> We should all, even if we don't agree with it, live with everyones desions about who they date.
|
|
|
Post by sunny.side.up on Apr 16, 2002 14:36:30 GMT -5
>>Not might, he DID say that. It plays a large part of homosexuality. When another guy comes onto you as a little boy, it messes you up, and that is not a good thing.<<
Again, that doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality, but with pedophilia. A homosexual doesn't do that to children. A homosexual likes the same sex, that's something completely different than children. >><<With homosexuality (with two adult males or females), no harm is done. Except that the child is mercilessly teased for having two dads or two moms. Like it or not human development is not wired so that any situation will do. If the parents are two dad's, the child does not have a strong mother figure to relate to, and if the child has two mothers, then there is no strong father to relate to. Both a female and male partnership provide the best partnership for well developed children. The better alternative, though harder, is a single parent.<<
(I didn't say anything about homosexuals as parents, but since you brought the subject up...) I know several people who have been raised by single parents and who haven't had a male rolemodel, they have of course had some problems with their dads not being there, but that wasn't because they didn't have a male role-model. As for the kids being bullied, I also know a girl who has had two moms all her life. She hasn't been bullied or harassed or anything.
Why would kids need a male and a female rolemodel? What exactly is the difference? Aren't you stereotyping men and women when you say that there is such a difference between them that we all need them both as parents? >><<Personally, I don't know anyone who would even think of tolerating pedophilia. Why do you think it will be tolerated in the future?? >> The same way it is now, very subtly.<<
If it will be tolerated the same way it is now, that would mean that it's not going to be tolerated. Hello, it's illegal. >>Forget religious beliefs. AIDS for one -- a higher death rate, the life expectancy of gays are about 15 years less than straight people.<<
So straight people don't have AIDS?? If you're really worried about AIDS, I suggest you start with South-Africa and not with gays.
>>Fidelity among gays is very low, it's all about sex. A gay partnership only lasts a few years.<<
How do you know it's all about sex? It's definitely not like that with the gays I know. And aren't there numerous straight relationships that only last a few years or shorter? Besides, maybe gay partnerships would last longer if they would be able to get married.
>>Because a former Klinton Surgeon General has supported a book that says it is not harmful to a child, and there are other people as well that are trying to normalize this.<<
The majority of people isn't like that. As I said before, of course there could always be a few nuts screaming that it's not harmful. Have you ever seen the media paying any attention to the question wether pedophilia should be accepted (except for the book)? Probably not. The reason is, that hardly anyone is even considering accepting pedophilia.
~*Esther*~
|
|
|
Post by Cassiopeia on Apr 16, 2002 16:22:26 GMT -5
>>Since when? <<
Because homosexuality does not hurt anyone! It is a consensual romantic/sexual relationship between two members of the same sex.
>>Both of which are sexually devant. Most pedophiliacs, men, assault younger boys. <<
Do you know this for a fact? Show me some statistics to back that up. Anyway, even if most pedophiles were gay men (which I don’t believe they are) that still doesn’t say that homosexuality is bad. The act of molesting/raping a child is wrong, but there’s nothing wrong with having consensual sex.
>>How would gay parents have children? There's another problem. They can't procreate. If adopted. the child will not grow up with a sense of who he or she is. <<
And the child would automatically have a “sense of who he or she is” if he or she were placed in a home with a man and a woman? And I disagree that adoption is bad. I know several people who have been adopted who have great lives. Also, I would feel that being adopted would make the child feel more secure, because they would know that their parent wanted them (because if they didn’t want a kid, they wouldn’t have adopted one). Besides, there are a lot of children put in foster homes every day. They have to go somewhere. As long as they get adopted by a person who will love and care for them and can support them financially, I see nothing wrong with it. <br> >>It doesn't work because neither you nor I or the rest of the human race were born as the result of a homosexual relationship. Having two gay parent/same sex parents does not and will never work. Like it or not, I have a strong sense of self as a male. So it is with other males. We try so hard now to blend the genders and yet get mad at men who are weak. This will increase as more gay men adopt. A child must have a male father and a female mother for proper development. The father to instill discipline and a strong presence in the house so the child knows who is not only boss, but who is the provider. The father can give a child what the mother cannot. A type of strong presence. <<
Well, that’s your opinion, and I can’t do anything to change it. But none of those statements are based on fact. They are simply how you feel.
>>The mother has the same role as provider, but she can offer what the father can't: Nurture, a kind of shoulder to rest on, as well as a provider too. Both roles of the mother and father are important. <<
Who’s to say that a father can’t provide a “shoulder to rest on” for the child? Men can be equally as caring and supportive as women.
>>Like it or not, it takes a man and a woman to have sex and we all know what the rest is about. Raising the child right is very important in his or her development. <<
It takes a man and a woman to have sex, but not necessarily to raise a child. Sure, you may argue that it’s not natural, but how many aspects of our lives are completely primitive and natural? Very few. Change happens for a reason, and it can be a good thing if we don’t try to avoid it.
>>Without getting too graphic, gay men have anal sex. Gay women do it thier way. Or they pleasure each other off, if you know what I mean. << Your point being…? So gay men have anal sex, and women have oral sex. Believe it or not, a lot of heterosexual couples do those things. I still don’t see how these sexual acts make homosexuality wrong.
|
|
|
Post by diamond.in.the.rough on Apr 18, 2002 21:38:16 GMT -5
Ok, I've got some stats about kids with gay parents. These come from from COLAGE (Children of lesbians and gays everywhere). [glow=red,2,300]Facts about kids with gay and lesbian parents There are between 6-10 million daughters and sons of lesbian, gay and bisexual parents in the United States.1 Daughters and sons of lesbian, gay and bisexual parents have the same incidence of heterosexuality as the general population.2 Most "problems" that daughters and sons of lesbian, gay and bisexual parents are said to have, actually stem from going through a divorce, and not our parents' sexual orientation.3 There is no evidence that we face any more difficulties socializing in school than children of straight parents.4 We are exposed to more people of the opposite sex than many kids of straight parents. Even when we are not, there is no evidence to suggest that it harms us.8 We are more open-minded about a wide variety of things than people with straight parents.6 Daughters of lesbians have higher self-esteem than daughters of straight women. Sons are more caring and less aggressive.7 If we ourselves are lesbian, gay or bisexual, we are likely much better off than lesbian, gay and bisexual children of straight parents. 8 There is absolutely no evidence that children are psychologically or physically harmed by having gay, lesbian or bisexual parents. There is plenty of evidence that we are not.8 COLAGE (Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere) is the only national organization for the daughters and sons of lesbian, gay and bisexual and transgender parents [/glow] If you wanna check out the site the address is: www.colage.org/research/facts.html And about pedophilia and homosexuality. [glow=red,2,300] The fact behind these conflicting statements is that most pedophiles are not homosexuals! Or to put it another way, most homosexual molestation is not done by homosexuals. [/glow] This statement comes from: www.religioustolerance.org/hom_chil.htmIt's a good site, gives a lot of good information. I suggest all of ya'll check it out.
|
|