Church Is Not Cool. Prayer is Not For School.

[m]

And, "Neither do I put much stock in religions that tell me that crystals and fairies can guide me and help me live a better life." Isn't a stereotypical remark??

Nope, the reason people want to beleive in fairies and the like is because they are cute and non-threatening. Actually whomever made them up, and there are similar stories of them all over the world, imagined them as quite nasty, and demanding, unless of course, you gave them something. Whether it's the Seelie Court, Salamanders, or Nunnehi's they all have one thing in common, they replace that which already exists and it removes any accountablitly for one's actions.

Crystals are just fancy rocks that formed, look cool and do have a precise frequency they vibrate at which is why they are used in radio tuners and such, but that's the extent of their alleged powers. The only reason they're being snapped up, made into jewelry and potions, is that they are striking to look at. But later on, they're thrown into a drawer, forgotten about, and ten years later someone tosses them in the trash and they go to the local landfill. Soon crystals will be all gone because they're all used up. Sad we have to be so consuming of everything.

[arikylal]

Hmm....alright....Well opinions are opinions.

Anyway, I differ, I have no problem with prayer, christians or God, I have a problem with faculty run prayer groups/sessions in public school.

[m]

Hmm....alright....Well opinions are opinions.[/n]

That's it, eh? Fair enough.

And risking off-topicness, welcome to Cloud Nine arikylal, we hope you'll hang around. We don't take ourselves that seriously. The person you debate with in one thread will gladly help you out in another.

[arikylal]

Thank you for the kind welcome, Toxic.

I understand completely, this is just a friendly debate. I like to hear other's opinions.

[strangelilboi]

No damn it!! Fight fight ....nooooooo....too much peace in this world!

[strangelilboi]

Learning about religions is also a form of learning about culture. Something a lot of Americans seem to lack. (no offence intended)

Comments?

[arikylal]

I have no problems with say, have a religions option in school as long as it doesn't concentrate on one religion. Knowledge leads to understanding, and very few of us have an even a slight understanding of different religions, myself included.

[strangelilboi]

Thats true. A lot of us are so stuck in our ways of believing in that what we hold as our personal philosophy and/or religion is the absolute and ultimate truth, that our eyes cant be opened to anything new.

We have trained ourselves to become so narrow minded and set in our ways. We need to free our minds and realise that there's more than one way to find God in your lives. yeah?

[arikylal]

Exactly.

Religion is a means to an end, IMO. All paths lead to the all, whether you believe that you get one life to live and then you join god in heaven, or you have many (reincarnation) and learn lessons which you bring back to the all at the end of the cycle. But, that is just how I see it.

I also believe everyone needs some type of belief or faith, and that everyone needs to realize that others have different beliefs and faiths.

[m]

It's strange how many think that there are many ways to reach God, and and still haven't found Him yet. God has already established the way to get to Him, prayer. That's it, talking to God, "Hey, Lord, I'm having a problem down here." The truth is, God knows where He is, He's looking for you.

It doesn't have to be formal, no rituals, no repeated gestures with the fear that if you screw up the sequence God will not listen, or strike you down.

The problem with alot of religions, it is a thinly veiled worship of the self. There is no accountability and if you mess up, no consequenses. Most religions or philosophies are either a path of least resistance, which does nothing to strengthen you in life. Or it's so unneccessarily hard to follow with near impossible schedules and tasks to do that there is no growth, but a list of rituals and to-do's. The person isn't any closer to God, just really good at organization.

[.Hunting:High:and:Low.]

The problem with alot of religions, it is a thinly veiled worship of the self. There is no accountability and if you mess up, no consequenses. Most religions or philosophies are either a path of least resistance, which does nothing to strengthen you in life. Or it's so unneccessarily hard to follow with near impossible schedules and tasks to do that there is no growth, but a list of rituals and to-do's. The person isn't any closer to God, just really good at organization.

Could you please name said religions? Because most that I know of, most people strive to be better, nor are they "thinly veiled worship of the self". Please elaborate.

[m]

Could you please name said religions?

You have many that are the worship of self, one would be New Age which is a repackaging of Eastern Thought. You have crystals, UFO's, and American Indian philosophy.

Wicca doesn't really have a central God or point of worship.

Militant / Taliban style of Islam, how can anyone follow that without missing something? It's not even God centered, but man centered.

Judaism in which Christianity has its roots, but are not the same, have a central God for worship and the two religions do encourage the buildup and education of the sould and spirit (self) to know and get closer to God, who is neither some energy field or impersonal glitch in the universe, but a living being that we can go to.

[.Hunting:High:and:Low.]

You have many that are the worship of self, one would be New Age which is a repackaging of Eastern Thought. You have crystals, UFO's, and American Indian philosophy.

New Age isn't exactly a religion (at least to my understanding). It is more of a philosophy or just an unorganized set of beliefs. I have many interests that are considered "New Age", but it isn't my religion.

Wicca doesn't really have a central God or point of worship.

Correction: Wiccans believe in a God and a Goddess, although some believe that those two entities are really one (think yin-yang). So that example is a bad one. Many pagans (note: not all pagans are Wiccan) in general do not "worship" the self, they just recognize that they are a part of something much more than meets the eye. I suggest you read some books on the subject before you go berating it. Try reading Paganism: An Introduction to Earth Centered Religions by Joyce and River Higgenbotham. It is a fair and easy to read book regarding the broad spectrum known as Paganism.

Militant / Taliban style of Islam, how can anyone follow that without missing something? It's not even God centered, but man centered.

That I can agree with.

Judaism in which Christianity has its roots, but are not the same, have a central God for worship and the two religions do encourage the buildup and education of the sould and spirit (self) to know and get closer to God, who is neither some energy field or impersonal glitch in the universe, but a living being that we can go to.

Ah, so this is the true crux of it all. Judeo-Christianity is the only religion that allows one to become personal with God. Somehow, I'm sure you really believe what you said, but it isn't true. Many people who are not Christian have just as good a relationship (if not sometimes better) with the Divine than those who are Christian. I suggest actually truly looking into those religions and spiritualities that you do not agree with or believe in, not to "convert" but to broaden your horizons so that you don't come across as arrogant or ignorant. Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to box yourself into your religion and not look at anyone else's (and I mean, really look at it with an open mind, not with your filters on). I'm sure God will understand your curiosity.

[m]

New Age isn't exactly a religion (at least to my understanding). It is more of a philosophy or just an unorganized set of beliefs. I have many interests that are considered "New Age", but it isn't my religion.

A religion is a set of beliefs or rituals one performs. Showering everyday can be considered “religious.”<br>
Correction: Wiccans believe in a God and a Goddess, although some believe that those two entities are really one

I do not believe they are one and the same. And I was not berating it, you asked for my opinion. As to the nature of Wicca itself, maybe what's being said in the Wicca thread here is not accurate either?

Ah, so this is the true crux of it all. Judeo-Christianity is the only religion that allows one to become personal with God. Somehow, I'm sure you really believe what you said, but it isn't true.

Well if you think about it, God becomes very personal to those who believe in Him, there are disciplines but they are not impossible to follow. Show me another religion that can go up against all the others. Look at the other religions in how they tell you to deal with people you like, and don’t like. The Judeo-Christian way is to care for the friend as well as the enemy. Show me a religion that would ask its followers to do that. Would someone die for Paganism? Wicca? Probably not, yet Christianity thrives in oppressive countries where people are told to renounce their faith or die. Most choose death.

Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to box yourself into your religion and not look at anyone else's (and I mean, really look at it with an open mind, not with your filters on). I'm sure God will understand your curiosity.

Of course that comes across as an arrogant statement too. (I don’t use filters, they color the light.) I would also say that, without using the tired old clichés of “open minded” that there are things in this world that just do not matter and carry no weight. Many other religions are one of them, and many are human-centered, some are even man-centered while they put the woman underfoot. God did understand my curiosity which is why He brought me to him, and He would know how, doan’cha think?

[.Hunting:High:and:Low.]

A religion is a set of beliefs or rituals one performs. Showering everyday can be considered “religious.”

True. And showering isn't any more or any less valid than Christianity.

I do not believe they are one and the same. And I was not berating it, you asked for my opinion. As to the nature of Wicca itself, maybe what's being said in the Wicca thread here is not accurate either?

You will have to clarify. Are you saying that what I am saying is not accurate or what is being said in the thread is not accurate?

If it is the first, I may be mistaken on some accounts, but not the basics (I have been studying and reading aobut pagan religions for about 7 years now). Wiccans beliefs can vary (just as Christians do), as does all of paganism. As for the thread itself, I have read parts of it, and it seems the majority of people have a good handle on things and their beliefs.

{b]Well if you think about it, God becomes very personal to those who believe in Him, there are disciplines but they are not impossible to follow. Show me another religion that can go up against all the others. Look at the other religions in how they tell you to deal with people you like, and don’t like. The Judeo-Christian way is to care for the friend as well as the enemy. Show me a religion that would ask its followers to do that. Would someone die for Paganism? Wicca? Probably not, yet Christianity thrives in oppressive countries where people are told to renounce their faith or die. Most choose death.[/b]

Why wouldn't they die for their beliefs? Many people aren't even out in the open with their beliefs because of prejudice. You don't need to die for your beliefs to be a Christian, and you don't need to be a Christian to die for your beliefs. Don't even start with the "dying" bit. When Christianity was becoming "popular", many pagans were given an ultimatum: Either convert or die. I'm sure you can tell where this is going, some chose the first, others chose the latter, and still some others decided to defy the church and practice in secret.

Many pagans have an ethical system. Many believe that all humans are born with the preconceived notion of good and bad. Toddlers show that they are beginning to learn right from wrong (if you took psych 101, you should know this), which goes to show that people do not need religion to know what is morally sound (ie. help the old lady crossing the street - you don't need Christianity to know that it is nice to help her).

All Judeo-Christianity shows me is that, while I believe it is a valid way of finding one's path, with enough bullying throughout history, yes, of course it is going to stand up against other religions.

Of course that comes across as an arrogant statement too.

It could be, yes, but when you are talking about other religions without facts and only preconceived ideas and decisions, then yes, I consider you ignorant and unwilling to be corrected.

I would also say that, without using the tired old clichés of “open minded” that there are things in this world that just do not matter and carry no weight. Many other religions are one of them, and many are human-centered, some are even man-centered while they put the woman underfoot. God did understand my curiosity which is why He brought me to him, and He would know how, doan’cha think?

Ah, I see. So there is no reason to research others' ways of thinking if you deem them to "carry no weight", which is everything other than Christianity, and... why? I still am not getting a real answer because your answers aren't facts or even based on facts, they are just wrong. Wicca isn't human centered, nor is paganism. And where you got that idea from, I have no idea.

Edited to add: Anyhow, all of this debate is off topic and I apologize. This probably isn't the place for it.