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Post by strangelilboi on Apr 6, 2003 15:25:10 GMT -5
The Israeli-Paltestinian Conflict is a classic case of governments and extremists using religion as an excuse to commit mass murder.Thats all it is. In reality, not all Palestinians are muslims, a lot are christians. This Hamas lot are fuelling the Jewish public opinion towards hatred of all Palestinians and making all muslims look like manic crazy murderers. I personally believe that yes there should be Palestinian and PLO opposition to being pushed around. But these damn terrorist organistations dont help anyone. They just make the situation worse and make the Palestinians look like terrorists to the rest of the world. And LilmissStrawberry...i am shocked! Of all the people in the world: That's what gets me... that they're " destroying" a place that is important to Christians. Grr.I'd think that destroying anything thats important to any religion would be a horrible thing to do. I am against all religion, do you see be soliciting the destruction of any relgious articles of any sort any where.
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Post by 80s Child on Apr 6, 2003 21:38:34 GMT -5
I dunno if I posted here yet, but here's my basic opinion. I don't believe in killing in cold blood. However, it needs to be realized that the ONLY time an Israeli Jew will kill is if they themselves are attacked. And no, I didn't get this from watching CNN - I've visited Israel myself, and I've read books on the issue. It is the Palestinians, on the other hand, who are blowing themselves up and taking others with them to prove their point. Now, who's more violent? That being said, I realize that the land there belongs to 3 groups - not only Jews, but also the Christians and the Muslims. And yes, I believe that they ALL have a right to that land. If they would just stop killing, and realize 1) how much the 3 religions are alike and 2) that it is possible to live in peace, the conflict would be resolved. It's really sad that 3 religions, all similar in origin, can't get along. If only they could learn to live in harmony... *sigh*
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Post by busybodies on Apr 7, 2003 6:00:24 GMT -5
^^ if only we lived in an ideal world...
<<However, it needs to be realized that the ONLY time an Israeli Jew will kill is if they themselves are attacked.>> That's excluding the Israeli army, right? They're the people who go into Arab neighbourhoods and open fire on anybody (women and children included) if they're not indoors during curfew hours. They're the people who mow down Palestinian houses. Let's not forget Rachel Corey. It was clear as daylight that the Israelis in that tank knew that they were going to run her over.
<<It is the Palestinians, on the other hand, who are blowing themselves up and taking others with them to prove their point. Now, who's more violent?>> Prove their point? Is that what you think the Palestinians are doing by killing themselves?? I suppose Israel's killings are legitimate because they're carried out by the army?
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Post by Soleluna on Apr 7, 2003 10:22:24 GMT -5
I think Palestine should be of the palestinian people. That's it. Israel can't keep expanding. And you know why Israeli people will kill only if they are attacked first? because they can, having weapons from the states.
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Post by 80s Child on Apr 8, 2003 19:34:28 GMT -5
Israel has not kept expanding. They have the land that rightfully belongs to the Jews. Look at history, and realize how much it means to them. Maybe mowing down women and children is the wrong solution, but do look at the other side for a second and realize how desperate the Israelis are. They have lost many friends and family to suicide bombers and other forms of violence. They have suffered for so long, as a people and as a nation. They *are* trying to be peaceful, but when they are, they're attacked. It's a no-win situation on either side. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Christians believe that Israel is not peaceful, because it is the land that Jesus walked on? I'd like a clarification on that please.
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Post by busybodies on Apr 9, 2003 5:29:53 GMT -5
I've said this before and I'll say it again- the Jews have as much a right to that land as the Native Americans have to North America. I don't see anybody offering land back to the native Americans.
The Palestinians are just as desperate (or more even) as the Israelis. What else would lead them to blowing themselves up? The Palestinians are fighting Israel and the rest of the world equipped with sticks and stones. The Israelis have been the aggressors in most of the instances. They keep expanding their territories and they expect to get away with it? Oh that's right, they have the backing of the Western countries to do anything they want. The fact that the Palestinians were living there has nothing to do with it.
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Post by Soleluna on Apr 9, 2003 8:26:10 GMT -5
If they wanted a free israel, why didn't the states give Israel a place on thier own territory?
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Post by 80s Child on Apr 9, 2003 14:11:26 GMT -5
The Native-Americans have more land right now than the Americans ever did. I don't think anyone who isn't Jewish or Muslim can understand what that land means to those people. The U.S. can't "just give Israel a piece of land on its territory". That area, THAT PHYSICAL LAND, is written about throughout history and throughout the Bible, and it belongs to them. It's not just about land, it's about pride, and about religious history.
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Post by citronsoul on Apr 12, 2003 11:16:10 GMT -5
^^ Lettig the Old Testament dictate political motivations is a dangerous way to go.
I think the sad thing is that the labour party in Israel wanted a peaceful solution, & now they still have Sharon backed up by far right & religious party. I think Sharon only aggravates the situation ten fold.
...yeah, after the Palestinians were kicked out of their homes. The problem is that while I'm sure the average Israeli civilian would be more than happy with a peaceful solution (at least I hope so) the government seems bent on making Palestinian life hell. The attacks on the Israeli are just as religiously motivated as Israeli's ambitions for getting a hold of their Holy land. Plus, I don't think a Palestinian civilian is going to give up their life if they didn' t feel their family, religion & home were being invaded.
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Post by strangelilboi on Apr 12, 2003 16:36:11 GMT -5
In a way, EXACTLY!
Religion is what came out of 'revelations' years ago! It should'nt dictate how we behave - logic!
But then, come on religion is life! For religious people it is just that - there is no sense in lving if it wasnt for their religion.
Its liek that for me, even though i dont believe in religion. I believe in God! That is my religion. And it keeps me going cause belive me there's plenty of reasons to give up!
I understand why Jewish people need to Israel and their ancestors were very much in ownership of land there. But then is it right to bully and kill innocent people off the land that they currently own?
Just because their ancestors owned part of the land doesnt give them the right to force their way onto it as they blatantly are doing. I mean if that worked right we would be where we are now. America for example is not white or black or asian or oriental territory. Your ancestors didnt own it! They came from everywhere else in the world but there, well this applies to the majority of you.
No one telling you to push off their land. My ancestory for example is all mixed up - Arab, Sri Lankan and probably more. But I have no claim to any part of Arabia.
So why should the Jews? Its not that I'm anti-semitic, all I'm saying is why didnt they just move to Jerusalem peacefully and work something out wit the Palestinians?
But then you could argue that the radical muslim ones would throw a fit...
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Post by pettyluv on Apr 12, 2003 19:39:23 GMT -5
I think that we need to remember when Israel was created. We were just coming off the Holocaust and 6 million Jews had just been killed. Now, having just seen many of your family and friends massacred in Europe, would you really want to continue living there? There was already a sizable Jewish population in the British protectorate and after WWII ended there were floods of refugees. The whole world felt very guilty for what happened in the Holocaust and the newly created United Nations partitioned the land and Arab countries invaded. There was never a country called Palestine, the land that would become a Palestinian state today was part of various other Arab countries before 1948.
Until the suicide bombings stop, there will never be peace.
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Post by 80s Child on Apr 12, 2003 21:44:18 GMT -5
Like strangelilboi, religion IS the way these people lead their lives. That is so why it is so hard for people who don't believe in religion to understand why those who do are so adamant about following it. Israel did not "force its way" into the land, it was given to them. Now no one has answered my questions - do Christians believe that there is no peace in Israel because Jesus walked on the land or not?
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Post by strangelilboi on Apr 13, 2003 3:06:57 GMT -5
Hmm...no one commented on my thoughts on who owns the land.
Erm pettyluv I disagree. Yes there was a protectorate and yes there was a Holocaust. And obviously central Europe proved to be unsafe at that stage for any of the Jewish faith.
However, I see no reason why the land should be segregated to only Jewish people. Ages ago they lived together in a sort of peaceful coexistance - even though the strong religious differences pulled then into quarrel after quarrel.
Why do we need to have an only Jewish state and deny Muslims from practising their religion?
Jerusalem is a Holy City and has always been. It is said in the Old Testament and the Quran at least - the bases for 3 of the worlds great religions. Three religions that are not just similar, but in certain respects almost the same.
At the peak of the Islamic Revolution of Arabia, the Muslims exiled all Jews from Jerusalem. There was never a seperate state called Israel. Yes, agreed it was virtually ethnic cleansing but this was around 9 AD. But my point is that there was never such a state.
Israel is merely an idea, a basis of the Jewish religion. Agreed that Jewish ppl should have the right to follow their religion but .....by forcing Arabs, ethnically cleansing them, bullying them off their land.....?
The Arabs sort of did that when most of them converted to Islam, but revenge is completely immoral.
This is not mine or Arab propoganda...it is history!
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Post by paradoxPanda on May 10, 2003 18:11:55 GMT -5
Israel did not "force its way" into the land, it was given to them.
Palestine (Yes, there was a Palestine according to my Global History teacher and all the historic documents she showed) was PARTITIONED. MADE INTO PARTS. It was put in Muslim and Jewish sections based on population. There were both Muslim and Jewish sections when Israel was first created. ISRAEL expanded into the Muslim territories and beyond, though it eventually pulled back from some places. It responded violently and agressively when Muslim countries reacted to having a neighboring country taken over.
Also, do you really think it was somehow an accident that it was an Arab country that was handed over partially to the Jews?
Personally, I think it was a really terrible idea to give any land so important to three religions to Jews. If they had been given a part of somewhere with lots of land and low population (like Australia) to the Jews I think it would have created a lot less trouble.
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Post by 80s Child on May 10, 2003 19:48:28 GMT -5
^^For the last time, THEY COULD NOT DO THAT! Australia is not religious land. It is NOT the same thing. I've come to the conclusion that Israelis and Palestinians should simply learn to share their land. If either side does not like it, they can leave. But separate states do not work. Hamas and Hezbollah do not want separate states - they want Israel in the sea - they HATE Jews, it has nothing do with land. Bush's plan is just going to fail, plain and simple.
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