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Post by pettyluv on Jul 10, 2002 12:07:21 GMT -5
Yeah, thats all great leftist stuff, but its a little out of date.
In June of this year the USSC ruled that it was unconstituional to execute mentally retarded people.
And just for the record I only support capital punishment when the state can either provide DNA evidence or prove far beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty.
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Post by Soleluna on Jul 10, 2002 12:20:23 GMT -5
Ok, good for you, but you have to accept that it really isn't always proved this way. And what if what you call 'beyond resonable doubt' is still a mistake and the person is innocent?
Anything against 'leftist' people?!?
I am happy that the material is a 'little out of date': it means that progress has been made to stop death penalty.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jul 10, 2002 12:30:44 GMT -5
I'm the same way, I'm not for the wholesale slaughter of criminals, but what other way do you deal with violent people who care about nothing? Yes, rehab them, but that nearly always fails. I agree that they should work their tails off instead of relaxing in a jail cell with color TV and cable.
What's cruel and unusual punishent? What about the victim who was choked to inches of his life then set on fire, or the guy who was dragged behind a pickup truck until he was a human crayon. No one was there when these people were being brutally murdered. No one was there to stop it. What about their rights?
Why are there no candle light vigils given before a victim is killed? Why do we not shed enough tears for the victim yet go on the criminals side? We should be outraged with purple anger toward these people.
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Post by pettyluv on Jul 10, 2002 12:35:53 GMT -5
<<And what if what you call 'beyond resonable doubt' is still a mistake and the person is innocent?>>
Then it is extremely sad, and it is hard to defend "mistakes" and I dont really know how to explain it, but they did recieve due process.
<<Anything against 'leftist' people>>
Not usually...except in debate ;D
<<it means that progress has been made to stop death penalty>>
I wouldnt exactly call it progress.
Id just like to point out that in my state Illinois, our Republican governor put a moratorium on the death penalty. This has a lot of people including me quite upset.
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Post by Soleluna on Jul 11, 2002 4:06:46 GMT -5
Toxic, I was NOT poining out everyone should become a criminal... That's different. I am not justifying murderers or rapists or any other for hurting a fellow human being. I am pointing out that even criminals are human beings.
You have seen Minority report too many times. How can you have a vigil BEFORE a victim is killed? How do you know when a murderer will act, and when? I miss your whole point here.
Who said we aren't shedding tears for the victim? Where do you get the idea? Here we are discussing death penalty, not victims, that's why I am not talking about them. Here we are talking about Human Rights, and those concern EVERYONE. Victims and criminals. I am outraged with the criminal. I think stongly that they should pay for what they did. But I don't think that they should be executed.
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Post by DancinQT7610 on Jul 11, 2002 11:18:17 GMT -5
"Who said we aren't shedding tears for the victim? Where do you get the idea? Here we are discussing death penalty, not victims, that's why I am not talking about them. Here we are talking about Human Rights, and those concern EVERYONE. Victims and criminals. I am outraged with the criminal. I think stongly that they should pay for what they did. But I don't think that they should be executed"
I think he means their death is not being justified. Because their murderer killed them in cold blood and all we are going to do is give them rehab?? That's not going to help. Most of the time it doesn't. And once they get on the streets again they are just going to kill again. Why should they deserve to live this happy little life when they put so many people through so much pain? But honestly, I don't care because when judgement day comes they'll get what they deserve.
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Post by busybodies on Jul 11, 2002 11:55:03 GMT -5
The death penalty is a disgusting way of serving justice. The very fact that some people have been executed due to mishandling of their case by their lawyers, or evidence not being accounted for, should be a good reason to abolish the death penalty. We are taking the decision to kill into our own hands. Isn't that a huge responsibility that's better left to God? We have no right to kill anybody, just as that person had no right to kill. When we execute, isn't that punishing the family of the killer more than it punishes the killer himself? He/She is dead and gone but the family is put through so much trauma. I say keep them in prison for the rest of their life.
<<I am pointing out that even criminals are human beings.>> Even so, as Toxic said, they have no right to sit in a cell all day with facilities (that many hardworking, honest people couldn't afford) when they have taken the life of another. I was thinking along the lines of life-time imprisonment with no chance of parole.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jul 11, 2002 13:59:40 GMT -5
Actually I haven't seen Minority Report yet. <<Who said we aren't shedding tears for the victim? Where do you get the idea? . . . I am outraged with the criminal. I think stongly that they should pay for what they did. But I don't think that they should be executed">> Human Rights? A murderer forfieted his rights and demonstrated that he cannot live within the laws of a polite society when he kills. <<I think he means their death is not being justified. Because their murderer killed them in cold blood and all we are going to do is give them rehab?? . . . But honestly, I don't care because when judgement day comes they'll get what they deserve. >> That's my point exactly, thanks DancingQT610.
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Post by sunny.side.up on Aug 10, 2002 10:49:44 GMT -5
>>Because their murderer killed them in cold blood and all we are going to do is give them rehab?? That's not going to help. Most of the time it doesn't. And once they get on the streets again they are just going to kill again.<< If a murderer doesn't get death penalty, they usually get lifetime imprisonment, which means that they can't 'get on the streets and kill again'. Besides, I wonder why you all think that rehab usually doesn't work. I've never heard that and I haven't seen any proof. >>Why should they deserve to live this happy little life when they put so many people through so much pain?<< 'Happy little life'? So you think it's fun to be in prison all your life? It's not called *punishment* for nothing. >>But honestly, I don't care because when judgement day comes they'll get what they deserve.<< So why would you want them to die before their natural death? If you believe in judgment day, it doesn't matter if they spend 30 years in prison before they die or not. >>Human Rights? A murderer forfieted his rights and demonstrated that he cannot live within the laws of a polite society when he kills.<< So that makes him a... monkey or something? The fact that he can't normally live in our society, doesn't mean he or she isn't human anymore. They're called Human Rights. Which means that EVERY human has those rights. Actually, they were partly made ESPECIALLY for people who have been found guilty of murder or something 'just as bad', to make sure they don't have to live in completely inhumane circumstances. ~*Esther*~
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Post by Cassiopeia on Aug 10, 2002 17:18:24 GMT -5
>>Because their murderer killed them in cold blood and all we are going to do is give them rehab?? That's not going to help. Most of the time it doesn't. And once they get on the streets again they are just going to kill again.<<
Um, why does everyone think that just because someone is anti-death penalty, they want murderers to only get put in rehab? I certainly don't want that. I don't even think that drug users should be put in rehab (well, unless they are paying for it). And I also think that murderers should get life in prison, so they won't be able to "get on the streets again".
>>Why should they deserve to live this happy little life when they put so many people through so much pain?<<
Do you honestly think that people who spend decades in maximum security prisons lead "happy little lives"?
>>But honestly, I don't care because when judgement day comes they'll get what they deserve.<<
Well, not necessarily...
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Post by Ich Liebe Rammstein on Aug 17, 2002 21:47:00 GMT -5
"I am a victim of your death" This is what I think (and my quote also ) Which is true. Think about it. When these people that the killers murdered hurts everyone around them. And it hurts me when you think "Oh they killed someone so let's kill them to show them what the other person felt like" . Oh yeah so you thought killers don't have feelings either and are only little robts or an AI. It hurts me when someone dies. Even someone I have never met in my life. And when these people kill these madmen...It is just wrong! No one should have a license to kill only because these actual killers mean harm. I am not saying they should be walking around near us. Only that killing them is *not* going to bring the others back. So why try to fight it?? There is always going to be someone who does something wrong but that is who we are, in my opinion. No we shouldn't wait around for another Charles Manson to strike but we shouldn't think that killing someone else is going to help anybody. That just sickens me to think of that. Yeah, I know I said in a few pages back about killing people was like 'art' and yeah I *do* still think of it that way. Not saying that "OoO let's go find two people and tape thm killing each other! While they are doing that, we can put paper everywhere! That way, their blood can be all over the paper and we can make a masterpiece!!" Great idea. But no, that's not the kind of 'art' I am talking about. See that?? Do you know what's going in my mind?? Unless you're some kind of pyshic, then no you can't. The same way with these killers. You have no idea what is going on in their minds. So stop the hate! Just because they hate you doesn't mean you should hate them. It is not right for what these people are doing, but you're not helping by making it worse. These are people. They have feelings. Maybe a lot of them don't show it, but they have emotions too. Ok. I am done now. Just had to get that off my chest. It may sound a little.. weird. But I am in a rush and I am tired, and etc. so.. yeah.
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Post by Cassiopeia on Sept 20, 2002 11:09:24 GMT -5
>>See that?? Do you know what's going in my mind?? Unless you're some kind of pyshic, then no you can't. The same way with these killers. You have no idea what is going on in their minds. So stop the hate! Just because they hate you doesn't mean you should hate them. It is not right for what these people are doing, but you're not helping by making it worse.<<
I don't CARE what is going through their minds. Unless they killed someone in self-defense, committing murder is a horrific act. I'm against the death penalty, but I think that if you kill another human being, you deserve to spend a good amount of your life in prision. And you should be working your ass off doing hard labor while you are there.
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Post by -*- Little Miss Strawberry -*- on Sept 28, 2002 6:23:46 GMT -5
After seeing Monsters Ball and seeing the guy get executed - there is no way I support the death penalty. I've gone over this before so I won't go over it again, but I was horrified after seeing the execution. I was horrified that some people watch them getting executed. My only question for those Americans is what is wrong with you?!! How can anybody think it moral to watch someone die? How can anyone see that and still think it OK to kill someone? How can anyone be so full of anger that they fail to have any remourse? May God help you!
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Post by Cassiopeia on Sept 28, 2002 20:00:40 GMT -5
^^^ I agree. I think someone would have to be slightly deranged to want to watch someone kill another human being. Hell, I'd get upset watching someone kill an animal (well, unless it was a bug).
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Post by Ich Liebe Rammstein on Sept 28, 2002 22:22:04 GMT -5
Unless they killed someone in self-defense. ...
...but I think that if you kill another human being, you deserve to spend a good amount of your life in prision.
I see no difference.
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