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Post by pettyluv on Mar 17, 2002 21:22:59 GMT -5
^^Naru can you please calm it down tad? From what I have read Soleluna is or was not blatantly disrespecting America. I would not expect her to recite the Pledge, only stand out of respect. I'm pretty sure I read that she did stand for the Pledge. I agree it would very disrespectful if someone didnt have the integrity to stand for the Pledge, but if I was in a foreign country I would not pledge my allegiance that nation, although I would stand in respect.
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Post by Soleluna on Mar 18, 2002 1:11:30 GMT -5
Thanx petty!
I am here just to express my opinion. Please Naru, I was a bit offended by what you wrote. You seem so very angry. This is a board for everyone to express their opinion and there is freedom of speech here too!!!
I agree in part with what Kiss Lisa shes Irish said. And I'll say it again, in case anyone didn't understand: I STOOD FOR THE PLEDGE, I only didn't recite it. I RESPECT THE USA. My reasons are in the posts above.
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Post by NaruNarusegawa on Mar 18, 2002 15:45:01 GMT -5
I am here just to express my opinion.
So am I. @_@
Please Naru, I was a bit offended by what you wrote.
My appologies, but your actions offend me.
You seem so very angry.
I'm not THAT angry, but it's annoying. You have no idea how many family members I've had die for this country to only have people come and slap em in the face by disrespecting this country does get to me especially while living up with the freedom and opportunities(sp?) this country has to offer.
This is a board for everyone to express their opinion and there is freedom of speech here too!!!
Where did I say you didn't have freedom of speech? I agree in part with what Kiss Lisa shes Irish said. And I'll say it again, in case anyone didn't understand: I STOOD FOR THE PLEDGE, I only didn't recite it. I RESPECT THE USA. My reasons are in the posts above.
That's fair enough seeing you stood. That's more than the people at my school did. =_=
So again my appologies for coming off bitchy.
Back to the subject at hand though I do believe what your teacher did was wrong, it's not something that should be forced.
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Post by qtpie101 on Mar 18, 2002 16:18:30 GMT -5
hey everyone i'm the one that started this board! to anyone who might have been confused, i personally stand for the pledge of allegiance everyday. i'm not promoting not-standing for the pledge. i have a great respect for those that died for my country, as many of my family members have. however, there is no law that requires us to stand, therefore writing this essay from the point of view that we are required to by law would be a deathtrap. there's no evil teacher at work here. this is a scholarship contest and i'm only looking to help my future. it is not in fact forced. yes, i know, it would be a beautiful action to not participate because i don't agree w/ the message behind the contest, but this is one of the few contests i think i might actually win, and money for school has to come from somewhere. so yes, to anyone who may be wondering, i have a great deal of respect for my country and i have no qualms with standing and reciting the pledge daily. however, i think that some people on this board wouldn't hurt to lighten up a bit because just like you don't have to be a certain religion to love and respect God, you don't have to follow a certain set of patriotic beliefs to love and respect your country. i believe everyone who has put a message on this board shows great respect for their country.
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Post by qtpie101 on Mar 18, 2002 16:21:43 GMT -5
p.s. this post was merely to ask anyone with more knowledge on the subject which laws ensure our freedom to make our own decisions on this subject, and I would greatly appreciate anyone who would like to respond to that.
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Post by OxNutz on Mar 18, 2002 19:45:10 GMT -5
I'll help you a bit, 101 face.
Here's a point you can stress, and you'll find a lot of info on it.
There is no legal obligation for one to say the pledge, (much less stand for it), and to impose such an idea would not prove to directly contradict the supposed bill of human rights, but the (laugh) morals this country is founded on.
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Post by OxNutz on Mar 18, 2002 19:48:39 GMT -5
Wait, almost forgot, can't leave without fueling the adversity...
What did Ox do when in school?
I went to sleep. I wasn't there to demonstrate patriotism, nor adhere to social norms. I went there because for the duration of my stay in this retarded country, certain things keep people off my back whilst I make my plans for the elimination of humanity. Screw respect for america. You blab on about integrity when the very place you take such pride in can't even get over a simple friggin problem like national debt. Pitiful bipeds.
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Post by girlpoet21 on Mar 19, 2002 0:46:51 GMT -5
I agree with Pettyluv, Naru, and Lisa. My grandpa was in a wheelchair paralyzed from the waist down from WWII to 1994 as a result of fighting for this country. He was in great pain the whole time. And as for the people who live(d) here, even if for a short time, and took advantage of the freedoms of this country, the least they could do is respect the people who died, and were wounded like my grandpa for it. It upsets me that a little speech like that is apparently too much for someone to say, when my grandpa gave up almost 50 years of his life for this country.
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Post by 3_Pound_Wang on Mar 19, 2002 3:30:43 GMT -5
Pledge-smedge...America IS the land of the free is it not? Freedom or speech, it is what it is, people are free to choose what and what not to say. And the pledge IS verbal, so if people choose not to say it, then they dont have to. From what I think, the pledge is a choice, not an obligation. I mean...I live in America, but so what? I may live here, but I wont let it control my beliefs. If America were truly the land of the free, then we would be free to make up our own pledges and reciting them in school after second period.
P.S. You cant take advantage of freedom, it's free, and you're free to do whatever you want with it.
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Larigirl
Junior Member
whose eyes are these? pm me if you wanna know!
Posts: 245
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Post by Larigirl on Mar 19, 2002 16:11:52 GMT -5
I agree with Soleluna - if i were her i would not have recited the pledge either. she did stand for it and i think that's enough because she was showing respect for the US. No one should HAVE to pledge allegiance to a country that they don't feel they belong to. it's your choice. when i go to mass with my boyfriend i don't recite all of their creed (or whatever it is they say) because i'm not catholic. i go to my own church and have my own beliefs. i'm still respectful though and i honour everything about their service. it's the same thing with the pledge. you have to be true to your own beliefs and you can do that while still rrespecting others beliefs and countries and whatevers. did that make sense? i hope so.
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good.disaster
New Member
the razzer formerly known as no-evil-star
Posts: 61
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Post by good.disaster on Mar 19, 2002 17:58:11 GMT -5
i agree with soleluna. you shouldn't have to stand, you shouldn't have to say the pledge... to me, simply not standing isn't being disrespectful, and i happen to consider standing to be an equal acknowledgement of your allegiance just as standing and reciting the pledge would.
i know american war veterans that greatly disagree with requiring/expecting people, whether they are citizens or guests here, to stand/stand and recite the pledge. for some veterans, it's been equated with how hitler required his followers to salute him and the nazi flag.
anyway, to give the girl what she wants and asked for...
it was decided in a supreme court case that you cannot be required to either stand or recite the pledge of allegiance. you cannot be penalized for choosing not to do them.
"We think the action of the local authorities in compelling the flag salute and pledge transcends constitutional limitations on their power and invades the sphere of intellect and spirit which it is the purpose of the First Amendment to our Constitution to reserve from all official control." -- official court opinion; 319 u.s. 624, 625; west virginia state board of education v. barnette (decided june 14, 1943) caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=319&invol=624
www.padnet.org/page2.html you might need to search within the page to find what you're looking for.
www.aclu.org you're bound to find something if you do a search here too.
www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8896.htm
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Post by pettyluv on Mar 19, 2002 18:09:49 GMT -5
<< it's been equated with how hitler required his followers to salute him and the nazi flag. >>
I do not really buy that argument. In Nazi Germany you were professing loyalty to Hitler and the Nazi party. When you recite the Pledge, you do not profess loyalty to George Bush, but to the Republic, and to the Constitution. I have trouble respecting any citizen of this country that is not loyal to those causes.
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Post by popcorn on Mar 19, 2002 18:57:56 GMT -5
Hey, the issue here is that some people take the pledge seriously... and actually think abouts its true implications other than that of simply professing loyalty to the US.
Probs ppl have with it: 1) 1 nation under GOD -- hey u gotta respect others' views 2) Some religions and some countries prohibit recitations of pledges <<think dual citizenship>> 3) If you are god-fearing, it means that whatever the US tells you to do, you will. That means if in the future you do something that diverges from the decisions of the US government (rounding up of Muslim men, etc.) God would strike u down. 4) Free speech: YOu can't force me to say what I don't beleve 5) THe hitler equation -- yeah, my grandfather has said that in schools in America, the pledge is done just like it Nazi soldiers did <<biased opinion, but an opinion>>
btw, I refuse to say the pledge since I don't agree with a lot of US policy <<I love the US anyway>> and the pledge has NOTHING to do with respecting those that died fighting for our country.
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Post by pettyluv on Mar 19, 2002 19:18:44 GMT -5
<<btw, I refuse to say the pledge since I don't agree with a lot of US policy <<I love the US anyway>> and the pledge has NOTHING to do with respecting those that died fighting for our country. >>
I believe it has everything to do with honoring those who died for this country. They died under that flag so that we can be free. The least you can do is show it some respect if you expect mine.
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Post by funkylemonpez on Jun 20, 2002 14:34:56 GMT -5
I love america. it's the country i live in and i have it better off than people living in third world countries. I respect those who have fought and risked their live for our freedom but i refuse to say the pledge of allegiance.
*I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands.*I will not pledge my allegiance to the republic, if i am correct that is another way of saying i pledge my loyalty to the government which i don't *... one nation under god* I for one dont believe in god there are a lot of people with different religions and do not belive in god or belive in more than one god.
*...with liberty and justice for all* (ok this is just a rant)..... i wish this was true. but sadly there isnt muhc justice. you have a much better chance of justice if you are rich, or white, or a celebrity. celebrities can get away with murder, so much for justice.
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