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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 5, 2002 12:55:49 GMT -5
<,<Explain to me how these few men knew exactly how everyone else should relate to God. >>
The Bible is inspired by God. The writers knew what to write by sort of a spiritual dictation. Make no mistake, this was alot of hard work.
<<If I wrote a book about how to relate to God, why would it suddenly be THE book on how you and everyone else who believed in my 'religion' HAD to be, pray, etc.?>>
That would depend on how well it holds up against time, and how well does it work when dealing with many different kinds of people. The Bible has no loop- holes. We are to treat enemies the same way we treat friends, and other loved ones. We are to give of ourselves, we are to rest as needed. A man-centered book could never have covered everything we're supposed to do with out making some compromises. In the Bible there are no exceptions to how we should relate to each other.
<< Who's to say that these men's perceptions of God weren't wrong? >>
Proven history. <br> <<Why do their beliefs take precedence over mine, or anyone else's? Do you see where I'm going with this? >>
I see what you mean. It's not that my beleifs are IT and yours don't count. But having been a Christian for quite awhile, this is what I've come to know.
<<Maybe this is just me, but that sounds like an awful way to be. Beg pardon. But you sound like the Taliban or something! What happens if you do question a belief? Are you stoned or something? >>
What happens? Nothing. Actually we have many questions ourselves, mainly just to get a better understanding of God. God encourages us to ask questions and keep studying. Not not that we're allowed this or that or not.
The statement that we're not allowed beleive or say we're wrong just means if we could: What would be the point of it all? What's the point in beleiving in something if we're not going to take anything on faith, picking and choosing what we like and not bothering with the rest because it's "not relevant." <br> Who is to say? Who is to say we're wrong? Or could be not right, or not open to other ideas. If that were true, it wouldn't be Christiantiy. The whole point is to beleive and have faith that God is who he says about himself, cause we as humans can't tell God who he is, and what he is. Anymore than I can tell you who you are and should be.
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Post by sunny.side.up on Apr 9, 2002 12:52:52 GMT -5
I have a question for the people who believe in the Bible or any other 'holy book': if you would have decided what your opinion on a certain subject was, and then find out that the Bible (or Qu'ran, etc.) has another opinion, what would you believe? Would you still keep the same opinion or would you change it to 'fit' the Bible?
>><< Who's to say that these men's perceptions of God weren't wrong? >> Proven history.<<
How can you prove that?? There's no way you can. It's not a fact that you can prove, it's only something you can guess or believe.
~*Esther*~
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 9, 2002 13:18:05 GMT -5
<<I have a question for the people who believe in the Bible or any other 'holy book': if you would have decided what your opinion on a certain subject was, and then find out that the Bible (or Qu'ran, etc.) has another opinion, what would you believe? Would you still keep the same opinion or would you change it to 'fit' the Bible? >> "Holy Book" huh? The Bible addresses many life issues, and some it does not. It depends on what "it" is. Relationships, crime and punishment, redemption, law, diet, sex, it's pretty much laid out. Many of what we have an opinion on; some of us and even you agree on the same issues. Treat people as you want to be treated, crime is wrong, work for what you really want, spend and aquire money wisely. Other things in life are not so simple, and Bible guides me through that. Sex before marriage? There's a hot button issue, eh? Christians are taught that sex before marriage is wrong. To analyze this I can see why. I'm waiting to give the woman I marry, ALL of me, and I have not been shared with other women, nor she with other men. Or if I'm unclear what i should do with the death penalty or even the smallest infraction. It's very clear in the Bible what one should do. Because even the smallest infraction, and I'm using this as an example, can lead to bigger problems later. Some of this is just common sense. Much of which is uncommon these days. <<Proven History: How can you prove that?? There's no way you can. It's not a fact that you can prove, it's only something you can guess or believe. >> Take the great cities of the Old Testament. They have found Jericho and a rather strange way the walls collapsed. And Nineveh, where Jonah showed up, all nice and bleached after spending three days in a whale. Many things in the Bible can be proved time and time again. Go ahead, name something.
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Post by .Hunting:High:and:Low. on Apr 9, 2002 20:01:58 GMT -5
Take the great cities of the Old Testament. They have found Jericho and a rather strange way the walls collapsed. And Nineveh, where Jonah showed up, all nice and bleached after spending three days in a whale. Many things in the Bible can be proved time and time again. Go ahead, name something. Pardon me for jumping in on this , but those are places. Fiction authors use places, doesn't mean the events "held" in those places are real.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 10, 2002 12:55:52 GMT -5
<<Fiction authors use places, doesn't mean the events "held" in those places are real. >>
"And the walls came a tumbling down . . ." Who has ever heard that song about the collapse of the Walls of Jericho? Jericho was a heavily guarded city built like a fortress. The high stone walls surrounding it prevented any entry by enemy troops. The Israelites that were to invade the city couldn't do it by scaling the walls. God told them, as a faith building measure, to walk around the walls until they collapsed, which they did.
Archeologists have found that the walls collapsed in such a way almost like a staircase, not just in a pile of rock but an easy way to get into the city. Of course, they don't have an explanation for it, just a "strange occurrance."
As for Jonah spending three days in the belly of a whale. Go ahead, look it up. Whalers in the late 1800's and early 1900's and even today have lost crewman who were swallowed whole by whales. Since whales can't eat much more than little plankton, the guy just hung out inside the whale who was later speared and captured by the whalers. The whales that have been cut open had the bleached guy in there, glad to be out, but probably near death. Now imagine the heavy-duty tans the people in the Middle East have and here comes this bleached white dude coming into the city of Nineveh.
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Post by 1.gurl.revolution on Apr 10, 2002 14:00:18 GMT -5
>>I'm against organized religion as well. And I'm also agnostic. I don't believe in anything.<<Cassiopeia: agnostic doesn't mean that you don't believe in "anything". it means that you believe that there is a higher power (or being) than you. it doesn't have to mean that you go to church 24/7. but it also means that if you don't believe in something that the church partakes in (ex, communion) then you don't do it because of your beliefs. >>In fact, alot of Muslim women feel protected, whereas some of us Americans see them as repressed.<<oh yea, Muslim women really feel protected! did you see that 7th Heaven show like a year or so ago where a bunch of women were protesting because their husbands were beating them up? i used to have a Muslim teacher. she said that when she calls/writes/etc her husband, he never wants to talk to her. Muslim women are treated like sh!t. i really don't think that they are all that "protected".
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Apr 11, 2002 10:21:03 GMT -5
I'm sure the Muslims here would disagree with you. As with everything there are exceptions. Just like some Christians listen to music no louder than chamber music and others still rock out.
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Post by Cassiopeia on May 16, 2002 23:06:19 GMT -5
>>agnostic doesn't mean that you don't believe in "anything". it means that you believe that there is a higher power (or being) than you. it doesn't have to mean that you go to church 24/7. but it also means that if you don't believe in something that the church partakes in (ex, communion) then you don't do it because of your beliefs. <<
agnostic: a person who does not deny the possible existence of God but holds that this existence and the orgin of the univers are not known and probably cannot be known.
Source: Webster's Dictionaly
In my opinion, that means the same thing as not having any religious beliefs. Beliefs in gods/goddesses and about the origin of the universe are what constitutes a religion. So if I don't have any beliefs about those things, then basically I do not have any religion.
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Post by unsunghero on Jan 2, 2003 17:41:10 GMT -5
I'm Agnostic, leaning towards Atheism. Religion, particularly Christianity, frustrates me. I don't like the boundaries the Bible and the church restricts on followers, and several of the Bible's viewpoints, including those on homosexuality and evolution, I fiercely disagree with. I also despise how Christianity seems to dominate over other religions - I was forced to take Bible studies as part of my school curriculum when I was 10, and earlier this year, a group of people came to a school assembly, which was compulsory of me to attend, and handed out Bibles.
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Post by -*- Little Miss Strawberry -*- on Jan 8, 2003 7:52:43 GMT -5
I'm a Christian and I guess there are occasions when I don't like the "institution" of Christianity. The important thing to remember is that Christianity is a "religion" that believes in a relationship with a God who loves his people and wants what's best for them and Christians believe that it is through Jesus we can come to know God. There isn't any point looking at the world and saying there isn't any sin. Christianity deals with it. Anyways, I'm sure you know all that. What I want to highlight is something my friend once said: "I don't have a religion, I have a relationship with God". Indeed, I hate the word religion when it is associated with Christianity because the word religion has so many things that come with it. Christianity is simply a relationship between God and a person.
Unsunghero, I know some people don't like being quoted and cross-questioned (and I haven't been here for a while so don't know what you're like), so if you'd rather I didn't, then just say so. I just wanted to pick up on a couple of things you said: I don't like the boundaries the Bible and the church restricts on followers, and several of the Bible's viewpoints, including those on homosexuality and evolution, I fiercely disagree with. I think most Christians who have, as I said, a relationship with God, will say that being a Christian brings them freedom and ultimately contentment... not boundaries as you suggested. Viewpoints on homosexuality is tricky, but it's really worth remembering that there are many Christians who think otherwise, and homosexuality is just one small issue out of many things. Evolution... some Christians do believe it happened. It's not worth making decisions, or assumptions, about religion... when your examples are so low-key issues in comparison to the issues of the life that Jesus gives. Many Christians say "well I believe in Jesus and that, so I'll just accept the issues I disagree with that most Christians say are the truth". I also despise how Christianity seems to dominate over other religions I wouldn't say that was Christianity's fault, more the curriculum's fault, and how Christianity has been, and still is, a worldwide religion. What does that have to do with the message of Christianity? The answer is nothing. Christianity "dominates" other religions, because it is a large religion... sometimes these things just have to be accepted. And in my school I went to a church, mosque, synagogue and gurdwara... I guess it all just depends on your school, etc.
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Post by daydream machine on Feb 25, 2003 21:19:37 GMT -5
I am against religion. Religion is a way to control people. I am not saying everyone who is religious is controlled, and not trying to offend anyone, I am just stating what I believe to be true.
I agree with everyone who was saying you can believe in god and not be religious. God and religion are linked together, but are two seperate things.
On the first page someone mentioned something about how there is always a path you are following and you non conformists are conforming. For me, not being religious has nothing to do with not conforming. I am not trying to be original or go against anything. I just feel restricted and controlled, so I choose not to attend temple.
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Post by Spazmatikal on Feb 25, 2003 22:18:08 GMT -5
if, at the end of my life, i die and find out that everything i've believed is a lie, at least i've lived a good life. if i find out that it's all true and i didn't believe, i've lost everything. but if i find out that what i believe is actually the truth, i will have gained soo much! that's my motivation. i showed up on this thread late but i wanted to comment that i pretty much totally agree here. I live my life as a Christian - a follower of God - and it's what makes me happy and content with life. If in the end, what I believe wasn't true... at least it made me happy, less lonely while i was alive. at least i felt like i was worth something. but i have faith, and it keeps me strong in my belief that God is up there waiting for me.
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Post by strangelilboi on Mar 24, 2003 16:59:37 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[glow=red,2,300]EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!![/glow]
Modern Religion is a mass of conflicting views that results in the division of countries and communities over often stupid differences.
I've been thru Buddhism, Christianity and Islam myself.
They do have good points but the way to god is thru urself and thru ur endeavouring, not just by sitting there and following preprogrammed steps.
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Post by -*- Little Miss Strawberry -*- on Mar 31, 2003 12:32:22 GMT -5
I've been thru Buddhism, Christianity and Islam myself.
And your thoughts were?
the way to god is thru urself and thru ur endeavouring, not just by sitting there and following preprogrammed steps.
So you're suggesting Christianity is pre-programmed steps? If so, you're wrong. Second, you will never ever find personal peace and satisfaction from looking within yourself. You're a sinner. You won't find it. Guarrunteed. If we could satisfy ourselves by looking within us we wouldn't need all these extra quick fixes the material world throws at us. I believe ultimate satisfaction comes through God.
Am in agreement with Spazmatikal and Larigirl.
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Post by strangelilboi on Apr 26, 2003 15:51:52 GMT -5
So you're suggesting Christianity is pre-programmed steps? If so, you're wrong.
Well that is what modern religion is isnt it? That is what relgion is and always was really - a path travelled by many people before. The idea is that if you go on that path you wont go wrong.
The problem here lies in that how do we know that path is the way to God. How can we be so sure?
Man is imperfect and makes mistakes. Agreed that the Bible and stuff once were the Word of God. But that they still are I disagree.
A word is only as good as its meaning. Over the centuries man has corrupted this Word of God so much and changed the initial path of the religion so much that its more possible than not that it is a long road in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying we dont need God. I'm only saying religion is not neccesarily the right way to Him. You are possibly just angering Him further.
Not to mention the conflict religion causes.
What is it that u wanted to know abt Buddhism and stuff?
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