|
Post by Michaelangelo on Mar 22, 2002 18:11:18 GMT -5
A round of applause to Sunny and Fuzzy. Many people think that I don't believe in anything higher than me when I tell them I'm against religion, but in fact, that's far from the case. I don't like calling it religion, but I'm very spiritual. Only I pray to nature. I don't believe in any gods. But I personally believe that nature is the most beautiful, pure, and self-reliant "thing," for lack of a better word, and I find release and replenishment (is that a word? Goy) in praying to the world around me. Is anyone else like that? Or am I some kind of rare circus freak? By the way, Toxic, I do appreciate your questions and answers, and the fact that you're (mostly...heh) refraining from promoting a certain religion. Just keep it that way, mmmkay? Thanks bunches. And I'm glad there are other people out there who feel the same as I do! *pulls everyone into a group hug* (Now, who's up for Kumbaya?) Love, ~The Kitten~
|
|
|
Post by popcorn on Mar 22, 2002 23:48:02 GMT -5
Hehe, I also think organized religion ends up hurting people... I think you guys have really touched on everything. except for one previous thing taht FuzzySlippers said: >>Joe Blow can write a book on Satanism, doesn't mean that that is what the Devil thinks and wants.<<
I've never understood this, the Bible is just that, a bunch of guys wrote stuff, called it teh word of god, and tada.
|
|
|
Post by .Hunting:High:and:Low. on Mar 23, 2002 0:45:45 GMT -5
^^ popcorn, I actually agree with ya there. You have a point. But like Toxic said before, he believes that the Bible is the word of God, just taken down by man (again, Toxic, feel free to correct me if I am wrong).
|
|
|
Post by sunny.side.up on Mar 25, 2002 15:22:50 GMT -5
lol, thanks for the applause. ;D Kittenette - Nope, I don't think you're a rare circus freak. That's sort of the same as what the Indians used to believe (or still do??). And I think it also has something to do with, uhm, people from India (not sure what you call them... heehee). I think there is some 'theory' that everything is actually 'one thing', called Maya, and that in our lives we create the illusion of being individuals. Well, something like that... I'm not sure if I told it right. ~*Esther*~ * edit: the 'illusion' is called maya and 'everything' is called brahman or something. (and toxic - I didn't mean specifically hindus... It's just a very old 'philosophy' from India)
|
|
|
Post by SuGarPantieS on Mar 25, 2002 18:53:16 GMT -5
I agree. There are too many false religions out there. Im sick of everyone telling everyone else that they are the right way to go. I know that we were created somehow but Im not sure by whom or by what & I sure as hell aint going to try & find out because honestly, there is no real proof.
|
|
|
Post by popcorn on Mar 25, 2002 20:16:42 GMT -5
^^ Wow, that's EXACTLY how I feel. Yeah Sugar!
|
|
Larigirl
Junior Member
whose eyes are these? pm me if you wanna know!
Posts: 245
|
Post by Larigirl on Mar 26, 2002 18:57:10 GMT -5
<<I believe the way to God isn't through church, but through yourself. Really good point Esther. I agree completely! You don't need a church to feel God or pray to him/her/it. It may be a good way to get a gathering of people together, who believe in the same/similar things, but I believe that spiritual issues are better felt within yourself, not with a bunch of people and a "head of church". >>
esther and fuzzy, you guys both made good points there! i agree about the whole church issue.... that's kinda what i was talking about in my first post.
|
|
|
Post by Toxic-Avenger on Mar 27, 2002 10:42:41 GMT -5
<<I believe the way to God isn't through church, but through yourself. . . . but I believe that spiritual issues are better felt within yourself, not with a bunch of people and a "head of church". >>
That's true, no one can tell you how much and how far you are, in spiritual sense. That is, unless your always high and your life is generally a mess.
<< I also think organized religion ends up hurting people>>
Take a look at the one billion or so people who have taken Christianity, or Islam. There's Judiasm, and others, and many are content and find great joy in these. In fact, alot of Muslim women feel protected, whereas some of us Americans see them as repressed.
>>Joe Blow can write a book on Satanism, doesn't mean that that is what the Devil thinks and wants.<<
But if you don't beleive in either good, bad, or both, that a religion teaches, what difference would that make to you? <<people from India (not sure what you call them... heehee).>>
Hindus?
The writing of the Bible: Each book in there is written by men, that's true. But each book is inspired by God. It's how Christians get to know who God is by reading what's in there. It is an instruction book to us on how to relate to others, nature, and even ourselves. It's not like one of the writers went into a trance while his pencil wrote everything out by itself then voila!. The Four Gospels are done.
Church and going to church. You don't have to do anything! Yes, you don't have to go to church or do anything. But you won't grow in your faith either. You can stay home and pray and worship God, or on a walk, or in your car. But going to church connects you with others who beleive as you do. You can take classes, and worship with others. If you don't like what a specific denomination teaches or does, find one that you do like. I really think that's the issue people have with Church and religion. They consider it too restrictive for some reason. It's not a list of "don'ts."
I go to a Presbyterian Church, but I don't consider myself Presbyterian. I go there because I like that it is a Bible based church. There are lots of non-denominational churches too.
|
|
|
Post by popcorn on Mar 27, 2002 23:44:50 GMT -5
^^ << I also think organized religion ends up hurting people>> Take a look at the one billion or so people who have taken Christianity, or Islam. There's Judiasm, and others, and many are content and find great joy in these. In fact, alot of Muslim women feel protected, whereas some of us Americans see them as repressed.
Um... exacly. they are content and are actually oblivious to the rest of the world (hey, if u were poor and in a '3rd-world' country you;d be too) They're being shielded but being shielded from the good too ( To use ur example -- I don't mean that I agree or disagree with burkas / veils.
ANother example is that you could be happy with a Church's explanation for something (angels make gravity) and therefore you wouldn't have to think. If you didn't have an explanation and were of a curious mind, you might do some experiments which could be the foundation for numerous technological advances in the future that would benefit humanity.
Hey, many argue that Moonies and Scientologits are being misled -- and it is obviously true that by going to a church, you will be indoctrinated (sorta taught to agree with certain beliefs -- borderline 'brainwashing') by preaching, etc.
Religion is about the spiritual aspects, and I agree with Toxic that it is more about yourself. However, you can fully develop spiritually yourself through personal reflection also -- at least I know I do. Often going to church may not connect you to others -- esp. if they are strongly orientated towards a specific ideology. Non-denominational churches with NO political connections are nice, but I wouldn't exactly call them organized...
Thoughts? Comments?
|
|
|
Post by sunny.side.up on Mar 28, 2002 8:10:09 GMT -5
>>Yes, you don't have to go to church or do anything. But you won't grow in your faith either.<< Maybe it works that way for you, but I don't have to go to church to grow in my faith, actually, going to church would be the last thing I would do to 'grow in my faith'. And apparently it works like that for a lot of people on here too. >>You can stay home and pray and worship God, or on a walk, or in your car. But going to church connects you with others who beleive as you do.<< There is no religion that I completely agree with. So going to church wouldn't connect me to others who believe the same as I do. >>I really think that's the issue people have with Church and religion. They consider it too restrictive for some reason. It's not a list of "don'ts."<< It's not just that, it's also that religions are usually not open to the thought that they could be wrong. ( ) And there are a lot of other aspects about church that I don't like... ~*Esther*~
|
|
|
Post by girlpoet21 on Mar 28, 2002 10:24:39 GMT -5
Our beliefs (Christian) don't allow us to believe or say we might be wrong. One because we're not (if you want, I can get you some stones), two, because in the Bible it says there is only one way. Christians believe the Bible 100%, as in completely true, infalible truth, you basically have to. And I don't mean that as in we're forced to, just that it's a basic tenet of our faith. As always, good job Toxic.
|
|
|
Post by Toxic-Avenger on Mar 28, 2002 12:25:31 GMT -5
Hey thanks Girlpoet21! 8) Well said on your part too.
So y'all think you're not the religious type. You are by definition.
Main Entry: re·li·gion Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
============================================
<< exacly. they are content and are actually oblivious to the rest of the world>>
Not those in the States or Europe for example, they know full well what's going on and what choices they can make.
<<ANother example is that you could be happy with a Church's explanation for something (angels make gravity) and therefore you wouldn't have to think. If you didn't have an explanation and were of a curious mind, you might do some experiments which could be the foundation for numerous technological advances in the future that would benefit humanity. >>
Not sure what you mean by that. Myself and others I know love to get into deep stuff. See my thread on black holes and space travel. Bump into someone at my church and most likely he or she will be in the medical field or some kind of engineer. Wanna know the ins and outs of wiring harnesses and emission control? <<Non-denominational churches with NO political connections are nice, but I wouldn't exactly call them organized... >>
But isn't the issue AGAINST organized religion? <<Maybe it works that way for you,>>
I have nothing to do with it, it's the way churches are set up. That is, it doesn't matter what I say about it or not. <<It's not just that, it's also that religions are usually not open to the thought that they could be wrong. >>
But the whole idea these days is that everything is RIGHT. And we freak when someone says that a way of life or religion is wrong.
What would be the point of a church saying they were wrong? Should preists, pastors and everyone associated with a church put disclaimers at the end of every sermon? Then that would negate it.
"God loves you. Well, in a certain all around spiritual uplifting sense as good as I can tell-you-until-I-find- something-else-type-of-being-spiritual-as-I-can-percieve-at-this-particular-point-in-time-given-the circumstances."
Yikes!
|
|
|
Post by sunny.side.up on Mar 30, 2002 8:00:51 GMT -5
^ I don't think I said that I'm not religious... but I think that whoever said that meant that he/she is just not the 'I'm-a-devouted-Christian'-kind of religious.
>><<Maybe it works that way for you,>> I have nothing to do with it, it's the way churches are set up. That is, it doesn't matter what I say about it or not.<<
I meant that church might help you grow spiritually, but that it doesn't work like that for everyone. Believe me, I know from experience that it doesn't help me. >>But the whole idea these days is that everything is RIGHT. And we freak when someone says that a way of life or religion is wrong. What would be the point of a church saying they were wrong? Should preists, pastors and everyone associated with a church put disclaimers at the end of every sermon? Then that would negate it.<<
Of course a religion shouldn't preach that they're wrong or anything, but they just can't be 100% sure that they're right. I have beliefs about a lot of 'religious subjects', and about a lot of other things too, and of course I think I'm right. But I also think, that I might always turn out to be wrong. That's just the way it is... everyone might turn out to be wrong. Everyone thinks they're right. You can't know who really *is* right.
~*Esther*~
|
|
Larigirl
Junior Member
whose eyes are these? pm me if you wanna know!
Posts: 245
|
Post by Larigirl on Mar 30, 2002 16:06:14 GMT -5
Sunny - in response to your comment
<<religions are usually not open to the thought that they could be wrong. >>
... everyone else basically just backed that up, but i just wanted to say that I have doubts all the time that i could be wrong in my religious beliefs. and there is a possibilty, i guess, that the world did form just by accident, or that it's some other great spirit.... but i've thought about it and i've decided that i don't care. i believe what i believe and i know it to be truth. i've experienced enough of God's love and power to know that he's there and that he helps us every day. i've seen miracles and i've come to the conclusion that nothing could shake my faith.
i think most christians, and probably people of other faiths (although i won't speak for them for fear of offending someone) have moments of doubt. we don't just blindly go through life believing something because we're told to. most of us weigh the possibilities and through prayer and meditation, we decide what we believe to be the truth. i believe the truth is in the bible.
if, at the end of my life, i die and find out that everything i've believed is a lie, at least i've lived a good life. if i find out that it's all true and i didn't believe, i've lost everything. but if i find out that what i believe is actually the truth, i will have gained soo much! that's my motivation.
|
|
|
Post by Michaelangelo on Apr 4, 2002 17:34:39 GMT -5
"The writing of the Bible: Each book in there is written by men, that's true. But each book is inspired by God. It's how Christians get to know who God is by reading what's in there. It is an instruction book to us on how to relate to others, nature, and even ourselves."Explain to me how these few men knew exactly how everyone else should relate to God. If I wrote a book about how to relate to God, why would it suddenly be THE book on how you and everyone else who believed in my 'religion' HAD to be, pray, etc.? Who's to say that these men's perceptions of God weren't wrong? Why do their beliefs take precedence over mine, or anyone else's? Do you see where I'm going with this? "Our beliefs (Christian) don't allow us to believe or say we might be wrong."Maybe this is just me, but that sounds like an awful way to be. Beg pardon. But you sound like the Taliban or something! What happens if you do question a belief? Are you stoned or something? Love, ~The Kitten~
|
|