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Post by pettyluv on Jun 26, 2002 15:47:10 GMT -5
I am in a state of utter outrage at this moment. Talk about judicial activism gone amok! The 9th Circus Court in the People's Republic of California has just ruled that the phrase added to the Pledge in 1954, "under God," unconstitutional. This decision was made 2-1 in favor of overturning the act of Congress. Judge Alfred T. Goodwin who wrote the majority opinion said, "the phrase amounts to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the Constitution's Establishment Clause, which requires a separation of church and state."
This phrase was added to recognize the Godly founding of our nation. I am relieved that this ruling does not have juristiction over my state as the 9th Circus Court only covers the states of: Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington state.
God willing this ruling will not stand up in courts of valor. I am personally writing my congressman and Chief Justice Rehnquist, Justice Scalia, Justic Thomas, and Just O'connor and I hope that these honorable people will restore order to a unjust ruling.
When asked to comment about the ruling President Bush responded that it was, "Ridiculous."
A RNC spokesman has urged public schools to ignore this ruling.
In response numerous members of Congress stood outside the steps and recited Pledge led by House Majority Leader Dennis Hastert R (IL).
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Post by Cassiopeia on Jun 26, 2002 22:11:28 GMT -5
It *is* unconstitutional though. The 1st amendment guarantees freedom of religion, and not all religions are based on a belief of god. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it if it has always been that way, but it was added only a few decades ago. Also, it wasn't god who found our nation; it was people who did so. The founding of the US had nothing to do with god or religion. I personally don't care about the pledge of allegience. After all, it's just a word. It's not like it offends me to say the word "god" or anything. I just don't think it needed to be added in the first place.
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Post by Ich Liebe Rammstein on Jun 26, 2002 22:26:23 GMT -5
You do have to remember that someone who isn't a Christian/doesn't belive in God may feel uncomfortable saying 'Under God',and they are just realizing it. These two girls at my school and at my Church both claim that their Science teacher is Athiest. And each time the 'Pledge' comes on he says everything except 'Under God' (What I don't think is fair *about him* is that he got mad,as the girls claim,at someone who said something about the Bible and threatened her.)
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Post by pettyluv on Jun 26, 2002 22:43:30 GMT -5
<<The 1st amendment guarantees freedom of religion, >>
But it does not guarantee freedom from religion.
<<The founding of the US had nothing to do with god or religion>>
But their morality in beliefs in higher powers helped shape the country, and that cannot be ignored.
<<Christian/doesn't belive in God >>
It doesnt specify the Christian God.
<<may feel uncomfortable saying 'Under God'>>
Then they dont have to, its just that easy.
<<something about the Bible and threatened her.) >>
Doing something like that is just rediculous.
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Post by .Hunting:High:and:Low. on Jun 26, 2002 22:44:29 GMT -5
I agree with everything Cass said, except for the fact that the founding of the US *did* have *something* to do with religion and God. The people who came over here were ones escaping religious persecution, and were wanting to practice their beliefs freely (somewhat...).
"Under God" did not need to be put in the PoA. It was only put in there in 1954 because of the Red Scare (although the real reason for it's being placed there eludes me at the moment). I live in Oregon, and while I do not agree with the decision to not say the Pledge at all, I believe they should entirely remove the "under God" part. This nation does have many religions, but God does not have to be a part of the nation itself.
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Post by pettyluv on Jun 26, 2002 22:58:03 GMT -5
The following words were spoken by the late Red Skelton on his television program as he related the story of his teacher, Mr. Laswell, who felt his students had come to think of the Pledge of Allegiance as merely something to recite in class each day.
Now, more than ever, listen to the meaning of these words.
"I've been listening to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance all semester and it seems as though it is becoming monotonous to you. If I may, may I recite it and try to explain to you the meaning of each word?"
I -- me, an individual, a committee of one. Pledge -- dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self pity. Allegiance -- my love and my devotion. To the flag -- our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves, there's respect because your loyalty has given
her a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job! United -- that means that we have all come together. States -- individual communities that have united into 48 great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and
purpose; all divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to
a common purpose, and that's love for country. And to the republic -- a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the
people to govern. And government is the people
and it's from the people to the leaders, not from
the leaders to the people.
For which it stands, one nation -- one nation, meaning "so blessed by God" Indivisible -- incapable of being divided. With liberty -- which is freedom -- the right of power to live one's own life without threats, fear or some sort of
retaliation. And Justice -- the principle or quality of dealing fairly with others. For all -- which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.
Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country
and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance...
UNDER GOD
Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said
that is a prayer
and that would be eliminated from schools too?
God Bless America!
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Post by pettyluv on Jun 26, 2002 23:05:43 GMT -5
^^By 1954 the Red Square was winding down and McCarthy was indicted. You know while that eraser is out maybe we should scrap some of the founding documents and dont forget about the Anthem!
The words "under God" that were added in 1954 by an act of Congress when Eisenhower signed it into law he said,"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."
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Gabbie
Junior Member
Posts: 153
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Post by Gabbie on Jun 27, 2002 10:23:20 GMT -5
I totally agree with everything that Pettyluv has said. This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If you don't want to say it, no one is making you, its just two words skip them! Nowhere does it say "freedom from religion" it says "freedom of religion" which means you are free to practice your own religion, not that we are free from ever hearing about anyone else's, not to mention that just because its say "under God" doesn't mean its a certain God. I'm pretty sure every religion has there own God/Gods in some kind of form, this doesn't mean a Christian God, it means whatever God you want it to mean. If you feel its unconstitutional that don't say it, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be allowed to, we have freedom of speech in this country to, and if I want to say that I damn well will. I didn't hear about anybody having a problem with people saying "God bless America" after 9/11, what is the difference between them, they both involve God.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jun 27, 2002 11:25:53 GMT -5
Ah yes, another Attention Whore basking in the spotlight of the idiocy he has created. The "under God" part is what, 50 years old? What happened, did this guy wake up last night and suddenly was offended by the Pledge. So he went to the 9th Circuit Court and they said. "Dang, you're right, we never noticed that before!" WE DECLARE THE PLEDGE OF ALLIEGIENCE UNCONSTITUTIONAL because we want to be more like Russia. This guy, I had his name earlier, also wants In God We Trust removed from our currency. Good, he can pay for the retooling of the dyes used to make the coins and he pay for the new plates they'll have to make for paper bills. Then he'll still have to wait 15-20 years for it all to filter out. And if he is so offended by a harmless inscription on his money, he can give it to me, I'll be glad to take it off his hands. He doesn't like religion being "forced" on his child, oh poor baby, I didn't know they held guns to the heads of these kids and threatened them into saying the pledge.
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Post by Cassiopeia on Jun 27, 2002 23:15:57 GMT -5
>>If you don't want to say it, no one is making you, its just two words skip them! <<
I agree. But it should have never been added in the first place.
>>Nowhere does it say "freedom from religion" it says "freedom of religion" which means you are free to practice your own religion, not that we are free from ever hearing about anyone else's, not to mention that just because its say "under God" doesn't mean its a certain God. I'm pretty sure every religion has there own God/Gods in some kind of form, this doesn't mean a Christian God, it means whatever God you want it to mean. <<
There are many religions that don't have a belief in a god. Not to mention lack of religion.
>>If you feel its unconstitutional that don't say it, but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't be allowed to, we have freedom of speech in this country to, and if I want to say that I damn well will. <<
I don't really have a problem with saying it. I don't believe in god, so it doesn't offend me to say that word.
>>I didn't hear about anybody having a problem with people saying "God bless America" after 9/11, what is the difference between them, they both involve God. <<
I don't have a problem with it because it's not part of a pledge that every American is expected (though not required) to say and believe in. Although, I do wonder a lot why none of these people every said "God bless America" before 9/11.
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Post by pettyluv on Jun 28, 2002 0:31:28 GMT -5
<<I agree. But it should have never been added in the first place.>>
But it was added, in much due to the religous heritage our country enjoys.
<<Although, I do wonder a lot why none of these people every said "God bless American" before 9/11.>>
Well I have always thought the song "God Bless America" to be very beautiful well before the tragic events of 9-11.
Also yesterday, the judge who stunned the country stunned everyone again when he blocked his own ruling pending government appeals.
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Post by .Hunting:High:and:Low. on Jun 28, 2002 1:10:52 GMT -5
While I don't agree or disagree with this ruling (I frankly don't care), I disagree with the way it was brought about. An atheist man decides that he doesn't want his kid to say "under God". Boo hoo. Cry me a river. Don't disregard my previous post (I stand by my belief that it shouldn't be there at all), but here is an issue that I have to take up with all those PC'ers out there: Since when did the minority rule? There are fewer people who don't believe in God/don't call the higher power God/etc., and yet they are trying to cater to them. For example on the catering, when Harry Potter came out on video/DVD, our local grocery store decorated everything. Soon as that happens, one lady brings her Christian friends (about 5 of them) and starts complaining about how Rowling is a devil worshipper and that there is "something wrong with the broomsticks". Oooookkkkkk. So, naturally, because the decorations offended someone, they took it all down. Didn't matter that every little kid 'ooo'ed and 'aw'ed at everything. Grrr. <end of rant> Also yesterday, the judge who stunned the country stunned everyone again when he blocked his own ruling pending government appeals.That is so idiotic. They should just block his ruling and throw his butt on the curb. If you are going to make a decision, have the guts to stand up for it. Otherwise, don't make a decision that major. Period. Stupid people...
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Gabbie
Junior Member
Posts: 153
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Post by Gabbie on Jun 28, 2002 10:45:44 GMT -5
<<I agree. But it should have never been added in the first place.>>
Well, I don't know exactly why it was added in the first place, but there most have been a reason, like because our country was founded by the guidence of God or something like that. No one had a problem with it when it first came out and now all of a sudden people care and because of one person we are willing to change something that we've had for 50 years when we can just tell people to skip those two words.
<<There are many religions that don't have a belief in a god. Not to mention lack of religion.>>
Yeah, my mom was explaining that to me, but I still feel that they can skip the two words, the whole thing isn't about God, its just two words that they have to skip, and just because a few people don't like it I don't think we should change it because thats catering to the few that don't like it and taking away for the many that do, and that isn't fair, either.
<<Since when did the minority rule? There are fewer people who don't believe in God/don't call the higher power God/etc., and yet they are trying to cater to them.>>
Exactly, I just posted something like this above, why should something that so many people are used to saying be taking away because of the few people that have a problem with it? And why didn't these people say something before about this? They just all of a sudden felt the need to come foward? Well why now? Why not when it came out? If this had been done already not so many people would be used to it and mad that this is even happening.
It isn't fair to take away from most people just because a few suddenly decided that it bothered them.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jun 28, 2002 11:26:11 GMT -5
If you really want to boil this all down, the whole debate comes down to one word. One Word!
The Judge who helped pass this law has put himself in a position, not to be held accountable for it. The US Senate, and Congress will overturn this ruling. Frankly with all the terrorism crap going on, the least of our worries is a mention of a deity that someone may or may not beleive in. The problem, is this will happen again.
Then again, I hope the person or organization that challenges a statement like, "Under God," and trumpets the non-existant, "Separation of Church and State" realizes what they're up against. "Endowed by our Creator," is from the Declaration of Independence. Is the ACLU going to sue to have the wording changed? Over the shoulder of the Spirit od Detroit statue in front of the Wayne County Courthouse is a Bible verse from 1st Corinthians
Let's remove or change the following:
A cap on top of the Washington Monument has a Bible verse.
Santa Fe ==> Means, "Holy Faith."
Los Angeles ==> Has to do with Angels.
San Francisco ==> Named after Saint Francis.
Corpus Cristi ==> Body of Christ.
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Post by pettyluv on Jun 28, 2002 14:34:39 GMT -5
^Dont forget about Saint Louis, or even the Saint Croix River. The list goes on and on and no matter how hard the left tries the Christian heritage of our country cannot be erased.
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