Teen Harassment-- Swept under the rug?

[LisaRocksYourWorld, yo]

Emotional violence causes more problems than physical violence, in most cases.

Perhaps you were a victim of it, perhaps you were the one doing the tormenting. Regardless of what position you were in, we have probably all experienced bullying to some extent.

My question is this-- If schools have a zero tolerance policy on bringing guns and illegal substances to school, why isn't there a similar method used to prevent teens from harassing their peers? Teachers and other faculty members aren't oblivious to what goes on; they know what students are the outcasts and who is treated badly. Something has to be done about it. Those teens who were doing the tormenting should have severe punishments placed on them.

I don't have much sympathy for school shooters, but I think school officals and the entire American public need to realize there wouldn't be nearly as many tragedies if ANY student could walk down the hall, and be greeted by his or her smiling classmates.

The problem doesn't start with the guns and knives, it starts earlier, and that is where there needs to be prevention.

[pettyluv]

Well sure your plan sounds good right now, but how do you figure we go about implementing it?

Will it be someone's word against someone's word?

I mean if you propose such great punishment for bully type behavior you need to be absolutely sure they are doing it.

And its obviously not just bullied kids that contribute to school violence.

And should rules like these even be in place? I mean what happens when the kid gets out into the real world? I mean you cant outlaw dominant behavior.

[RebDoMINe]

I am tired of hearing that harassment isn't an excuse for violence (and this is not directed at anyone, please don't think that, this goes far beyond these boards). I know it's not. It is, however, a large contributing factor. Maybe it's not an excuse for you, but it might be for another person. Not to claim it's a good excuse, because it isn't, but there is ALWAYS a reason.

Admitantly, I have a lot of sympathy for certain school shooters. Not all, but certain situations have my full attention and unmoving care for the victims, shooters, and all of their families.

There are so many misconceptions about shootings that it would take forever to go into them all. One big one is that the only thing that causes them is bullying or psychosis. Everything a person goes through adds to how he or she will react to the next. No one can say everything that happens.

But yes, it's a giant contributing factor. People have little sympathy for the killers, and yet, I constantly see people empathize will bullies themselves. "Oh, maybe they grew up in a bad home," "Maybe they have low self-esteem."--Are THOSE good excuses? For emotionally damaging another human being?

Yes, it's wrong to physically end a life. But isn't it also wrong to emotionally end one? I'm not comparing which of the two is worse, because, quite frankly, they are on opposite ends and are incomparable.

I don't want to hear that one person got picked on in high school and it didn't hurt them. I really don't give a damn. Everyone reacts differently. One slight difference in something that happens in a lifetime, and everything is changed. One person might not care, one might become secluded and shy, another might become angry and angstful. It depends on the person. I doubt people sat down and said, "Oh, gee, I want to hate humans instead of being so happy-go-lucky and having friends."

Harassment is a SERIOUS issue. It can contribute in driving people to do a number of things. No one does anything for the hell of it. This is the root of it. This is where the problem begins.

To stop it...zero tolerance is something I do not agree with, nor will I ever. Every case is different. It's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of in my life. You cannot run to the rule book everytime someone does something. Again, as I've said many times, there is ALWAYS a reason for something. Taking each case seperately will help ensure things are punished more appropriately.

So as for adopting zero tolerance on harassment, in that sense, I disagree. But yes, I wish it could be punished more easily. Although, I hear certain schools actually have developed zero tolerance policies for harassment, along with classes on bullying and teaching the warning signs of violent youth.

Pettyluv, oftentimes, administration SEE it or know it's going on. Sometimes there's proof, but they refuse to acknowledge it because it makes the school look bad.

I can't begin to express the misery I went through growing up. Unless you have been there, you will never understand. But don't anyone try to tell me I needed to toughen up or that I was just a sensitive kid. After constant shunning by everyone, it does get to you. I don't appreciate being told that I'm weak for how I felt (which is, in essence, what I'm being told). You were, in fact, one of the lucky ones if you never had to endure the pains it can cause. I can have come from a good home, and still have had a bad childhood because of the surroundings outside my protective home.

Harassment is a horrible thing to go through. To those of us who suffered it badly enough, we know how indescribably hurtful it is. But to others, we're just complaining. Everyone experiences bullying, but there's a level of it where you can't look at it and say, "I delt with it fine, knock it off." At that point, it was probably bad enough to understand.

Sorry this sounds so crappy, it's almost 1:30 AM, and since I'm not supposed to be online, I have to type really slowly, which kicks my train of thought all over. Bear with me

[NaruNarusegawa]

I agree completely with RebDoMINe, and she explained it a lot better than I ever could.

Call me cold hearted, but I didn't have too much sympathy for the columbine school. I do think it's sad that those kids died, they didn't deserve it, but to act like all those kids were perfect innocent little angels is stupid.

They treated those two boys like shit for years. They thought they were better than them, and only cared about themselves.. obviously since noone's feelings mattered to them, so why should I get all sad and care for them? If I went to that school, those people would of made fun of me too for being "different" meaning not dressing like a stupid sheeply prep.

Those kids had it coming to them.. not to be killed.. I WOULD NEVER think they deserved to be killed, but some type of revenge.. I would of rather seen the two boys just beat the shit out of all the kids that made fun of em though.

However, if the preppies actually went to school to learn and stop turning it into a fashion show to brag about their daddy's paychecks, and try to look like a million bucks.. just so they can make fun of others, a lot of school shootings could be prevented. But untill that happens, you won't see me cry any tears when some people are pushed beyond their limits by those people and seek revenge.

[Cassiopeia]

I would have really liked to have gone to a school where I could have walked down the halls every day and not gotten harrassed. Unfortunately, I can't see how the school would effectively enforce something like this. I mean, where would they draw the line? And how would they get their proof?

I was one of those people who was harrassed constantly in high school, and for absolutely no reason at all. People threw things at me, insulted my apperance, spread rumors about me, assaulted me, etc. And I don't care if this sounds terrible or not, but if someone were to shoot up my high school and kill those people, I probably wouldn't care. Their deaths wouldn't affect me. I have no remorse for people than that, and their lives mean no more to me than the life of a small insect.

I'm a strong believer in karma. Not in a religious sense, but in a practical sense. I feel that people who treat others like shit are eventually going to get what they deserve. I seriously doubt that life is going to treat them well if they don't respect others, because people are going to get fed up with it. And I can't wait until the day when they are cleaning the bathrooms of the place where I work and I can kick them when they're down (figuratively, of course).

[RebDoMINe]

^^Well said, Cass and Naru. The problem with Columbine (and I am a Harris and Klebold supporter) is that most of the people they killed had never even spoken to them. When Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold went on that shooting spree, they intended to kill as many people as possible, whoever they were.

Their reasoning? Eric and Dylan had been pushed too far. They were convinced of their own superiority. They had grown to hate humans as an entire race, not just those who had bullied them. They believed that almost every person in the world, if given the choice, would have shunned them--which is probably true.

Their plan didn't go as well as they'd hoped, as well over half of their bombs didn't go off.

People often rumor that they felt bad for what they did, which would be another reason they didn't kill so many. This is not true. They loved every second of it. The reason they didn't kill everyone was a sense of power. Eric and Dylan wanted to be able to line people up, shoot the first person, let another person go, then shoot the person behind them for no good reason. That's also why they liked Hitler, because he had been the most powerful man in the world at one point--not because they were racists.

I have sympathy for all those that died in that attack (including the shooters) and most of their families. The families I care the most for are those of the shooters, however. I admit it, I have no more sympathy for the Rohrbaughs, Petrones, Bernalls...they can all burn in the firey pits of hell. I know they went through a lot, but people who milk tragedies and try to get everyone on their side so they can go out and sue innocent, grieving people, are not anyone I can feel sorry for.

Unfortunately, according to multiple interviews with Columbine students, after the shooting, the teasing STILL continued. Maybe I wasn't surprised when people were still being assholes at my school--it was all the way in Colorado. But of all schools, Columbine should have been the one to learn. And I guess they never did.

People are suing Columbine High School and the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department (which, from now on, I will be calling Jeffco because I'm lazy) for failing to acknowledge the problem and fix it earlier.

I don't believe, even if action had been taken, it would have stopped Eric and Dylan, but many people do. Columbine is being sued because they knew of issues with the two boys. So did Jeffco. One of the big things was that Eric had a webpage using his AOL member page, that was a big compilation of different things. One section was called Rebel Wisdom, where he just told what he liked and hated (they were often pretty funny). Another was a jokes section, where Reb, VoDKa, and KiBBz (Eric, Dylan, and a friend of theirs, Chris) would parody the Yo Momma jokes. There was also a page of lyrics Eric compiled that he liked.

But then there was the page that threatened his neighbor, Brooks Brown, saying that he wanted to kill him. They were friends prior to several incidents, and they just grew apart. Brooks found the site, and his family reported it to Jeffco and the school--both of which did nothing about it.

Before the shootings, Brooks and Eric made up and Eric warned Brooks to stay away from the school (he was fortunate, because Eric did want him dead prior).

There are situations, such as these, where the admin CAN do something about it (although this is sort of the example you gave reversed). Unfortunately, they often don't have proof as flat out as this. And when they do, they often deny it and blow it off, which leads to a great risk of the student emotionally being hurt, and other students surrounding this person, if they someday snap.

And when the admin does do something about it, much of the time, it elevates the problem because the bully is then angry. It's such a shame that the only way you can prevent such things is to get the bullies to stop bullying by being afraid of what may happen. It's not so great that we have to teach people that if they don't want their brains blown out by a fellow classmate, they need to shut the hell up, but it's a reality.

Sorry I jumped topics fourty times, I started replying early this morning but never finished.

[Cassiopeia]

^^^ People actually sued Columbine High School for the shootings? WTF? As if *they* were supposed to know that two kids were going to shoot up the school that day. One thing that I can't stand is people who sue for stupid things. They are such greedy assholes. And the fact that they are trying to make money off the fact that their kids were killed is just SICK. All the money in the world won't bring their children back, and it just makes them appear even more greedy.

[RebDoMINe]

Cass, those lawsuits aren't the bad ones. The bad lawsuits are the ones that are being thrown at the Harrises and Klebolds left and right, at least in my opinion.

People expect their parents to have been psychic. Things like their sons making bombs may seem obvious, but they are not. They honestly had no idea, but it wasn't that they weren't involved in their sons lives. They cared very much, they were loving, caring, kind parents who raised their sons with strong morals.

Dylan's family wouldn't even let him play with toy guns. He was active in Cub Scouts as a boy, and had a pretty tight relationship with his dad.

But that wasn't enough. It's easy to hide things from parents, even overprotective ones. To be honest, I have a lot more sympathy for the Harris and Klebold families than I do the other victims' families.

Can you imagine not only knowing that your child committed suicide, but they brought thirteen others with him? Feeling that perhaps you are responsible for the suicide of you child, and the murder of other children? Wondering all your life if you could have done just one thing differently, maybe the beautiful little boy you thought you raised so well would still be here?

And then turning around and seeing their memorial crosses torn down and chopped to shreds. Being shunned and hated by the community and the country. Virtually being kicked out of the tight circle of families mourning for the losses of their children--who is there to comfort them?

A man named Reverend Marxhausen officiated Dylan Klebold's funeral. He was kind and compassionate towards the Klebolds--moreso than almost anyone. He offered sympathy and a caring hand to them during their hardest time. He was willing to risk his reputation and officiate the funeral of a killer, and stretch his hand in kindness to a family.

And he was driven from his church by angry people who believed he was wrong. How dare he support a grieving family without permission? How dare he help these poor people? What an awful man he must be

I would not want to be the Klebolds at that moment. They felt bad enough as it is without feeling responsible for this man being forced to leave his job with the church.

The Klebolds are being sued. The Harrises are being sued. They're being publically humiliated. The Rohrbaughs, the Petrones, the Velasquez', the Bernalls...they are all throwing things at the Harrises and Klebolds as if it will bring their children back. It's unfortunate what happened, but they are milking sympathy and using it against innocent families.

I know they are hurt. But quite frankly, their situation is less painful than that of the Harris and Klebold families. Maybe their children died in a more horrible manner, but I don't believe they feel the same kind of pain.

The Bernalls particularly upset me, because in Misty Bernall's (Cassie's mother) book She Said Yes (full of false details, but it's touching, nonetheless), she offered her sympathy and forgiveness to the parents of the shooters. Now she is going to sue them.

Their silence has screamed louder than any words. People call the Harris and Klebold families cold and unkind for not speaking publically, I disagree. They have a great strength. They went through excessive pain, and they can hardly even find support.

So, back to my original point, Columbine being sued is the least of anyone's lawsuit problems.

[pettyluv]

I think its amazing that some people can say a bully had it coming to him, and then ten minutes later oppose the death penalty.

You can come up with any excuse you desire for the despicable and ruthless killing that people like the Columbine killers engaged in but it just cannot excuse their behavior. They might have been through hell in that school but I cannot comprehend how anyone in their right minds could vindicate murder because the kids were made fun of and all out claim that they support their actions. I dont care how horrible those kids acted, it does not give them the right to take their lives. I feel no sypmathy for the shooters or their families, the idea of feeling sorry for them is just ludicrous to me. Although I have much compassion for every person they killed, reguardless of how they acted in their lives.

I think those families have every right to sue whoever could have put a stop to the killings. Their children were killed in vain, and I think any way that they choose to bring closure to a horrible chapter of their lives is their bussiness.

[RebDoMINe]

^^I do not, by any means, condone the killings. At all. I FELT sympathy for the families suing up and down, but the way they are acting, I do not. When I say I support Eric and Dylan, I don't mean I support what they did. I support the idea that they truly were not bad people. I support the idea that it was one aspect of their personalities, that they were not evil monsters. I believe they were people, too. They were somebody's babies, their pride and joy. They were good friends and loving sons and they were hurting. What they did was downright disgusting. You know that as well as I do. But what I mean when I say I support them is, they were probably not the people everyone assumes they are.

I can understand if you don't have sympathy for the killers. That's completely comprehendable. But how can you not have sympathy for their parents? I don't understand how this is possible. They truly had no idea--it's a lot easier than people think to lie and sneak.

Eric and Dylan may have done something horrible, but they were very intelligent. They knew how to plan precisely. They were vendictive and blood thirsty, and they were very technical and detailed. If they could plot something so massive (and had their propane bombs work--which had no defaults, they just happened to not work, that school would have been blown sky high and every student to smitherines), what makes you think they couldn't keep it a secret?

How can you NOT feel bad for their families? Who have not been allowed to grieve once. Who have been given the ultimate pain in life--they have it worse.

If you were a parent, would you rather know that your child was killed, or that your child went out and killed 13 people and then himself? I know why the other families are angry and hurt, but this is wrong.

Trying to get revenge on innocent people simply because you cannot get to the person responsible is no excuse for anything. It is not acceptable behavior. And if they didn't have a sob story, people would be angry. I know they have suffered, but collecting money from people who did nothing wrong is not going to offer closure. All it's going to do is pour salt in the wounds of good hearted people who have gone through more pain than any of us will ever have to feel.

[Cassiopeia]

^^^ I never said that people necessarily *deserved* to be killed. I just said that there are a lot of people whom I wouldn't care if they died. All life is not equal, in my eyes. And if you treated me or one of my loved ones badly, you can bet that I'm not going to be coming to your funeral. I'd rather someone kill a million people that I didn't know or didn't like than one person that I cared about. Hell, I'd be more sad if my cat died than if a bunch of people whom I didn't know or didn't care about died.

[Cassiopeia]

>>I feel no sypmathy for the shooters or their families, the idea of feeling sorry for them is just ludicrous to me. Although I have much compassion for every person they killed, reguardless of how they acted in their lives.<<

Eric and Dylan were killed too. Yes, they took their own lives, but they still died regardless. Do you feel sympathy for them too, because they died?

[NaruNarusegawa]

"I think its amazing that some people can say a bully had it coming to him, and then ten minutes later oppose the death penalty."

The death penalty wasn't even mentioned in this thread, and I don't think anybody said they ahd death coming to them, but revenge yes.. however there's a big difference in the two.

"You can come up with any excuse you desire for the despicable and ruthless killing that people like the Columbine killers engaged in but it just cannot excuse their behavior. They might have been through hell in that school but I cannot comprehend how anyone in their right minds could vindicate murder because the kids were made fun of and all out claim that they support their actions."

And who supported their actions? Noone here is cheering on the killing of those people, we've repeatedly said it was sad, but those people caused it themselves.

And the bullies who weren't killed.. I wonder if they feel soo hot now. I HOPE they are feeling the guilt of what they contributed to, because they did contribute to the deaths of the people there. Yeah, they are soo hot now, the jocks and cheerleaders, let's worship them. *rolls eyes*

"I dont care how horrible those kids acted, it does not give them the right to take their lives. I feel no sypmathy for the shooters or their families, the idea of feeling sorry for them is just ludicrous to me. Although I have much compassion for every person they killed, reguardless of how they acted in their lives."

Why isn't the boys parents innocent? Like it was said, they did their best to raise their kids.. it's not like these parents were physcos teaching this stuff to their sons.

They are just as innocent as the victims parents.

"I think those families have every right to sue whoever could have put a stop to the killings. Their children were killed in vain, and I think any way that they choose to bring closure to a horrible chapter of their lives is their bussiness."

So it takes money to give them closure for their kids deaths?!??!.. talk about fucking SICK!!!

[Cassiopeia]

^^^ I completely agree. What the hell is money going to do? Oh, they can get rich off of the fact that their kids were killed. That's really nice. Is money going to make the pain of losing a child go away? If it does, then that is disgusting.

[pettyluv]

^^Hey you know what, if that is how they plan to gain closure that is none of my bussiness. The noble thing to do would be to donate all monies ganed in any such suit to charities, but I doubt that is what would be done.