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Post by pettyluv on Mar 3, 2002 17:43:15 GMT -5
^^ Then maybe we should ban knives as well?? As they too can cause the death of someone?? I mean is the situation any different? If someone is going to kill someone, then that is going to happen some way or another.
Its not like someone in their right mind is going to go out and say..."hmmm I think I'll kill Jackie today" if you are going to do it, you are already deranged and will most likely go to any means necesary to accomplish your goal.
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Post by NaruNarusegawa on Mar 9, 2002 0:55:53 GMT -5
"Well lets look at what you have a gun for: to defend yourself, right? Well the minute you use that gun as a form of defence, then you are causing some form of violence. Whether the violence is really violence, or whether it is to protect yourself, either way you are shooting the gun... you are hurting someone, you are causing violence."
And your point? Should I not be able to defend myself to keep from "causing violence", violence mind you that may save my life. "Of course if you have a gun then your intent may not be to go out and cause violence, but keeping a gun shows that you will not be afraid to do so if the right occasion comes."
Yeah, I'm not afraid to defend myself or my family if our lives depended on it.. .you're explaining that as if it was a bad thing. What's your point?
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Post by .Hunting:High:and:Low. on Mar 9, 2002 2:03:25 GMT -5
I just find it funny that all these anti-gunners fail to mention all the lives that are saved by firearms...
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Post by -*- Little Miss Strawberry -*- on Mar 9, 2002 8:53:03 GMT -5
I just thought of something... in the UK, handguns and sharp knives are in general banned. Of course, that doesn't mean some people don't carry them but in general most people don't, as there is a law against it.
America has way more violence than the UK. I wonder why??
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Post by NaruNarusegawa on Mar 9, 2002 11:36:12 GMT -5
"I just thought of something... in the UK, handguns and sharp knives are in general banned. Of course, that doesn't mean some people don't carry them but in general most people don't, as there is a law against it."
sharp knives are banned? WTF is in your kitchen? What do you cut things with plastic knives? puh-leeze.
Oh, also lilmissstrawberry, thanks for completely ignoring my post to you. I don't expect you to reply to this one either.
"I just find it funny that all these anti-gunners fail to mention all the lives that are saved by firearms..."
Of course not.. .and do you know how many crimes that are stopped and people's lives saved by guns, but when it comes out in the news the little fact that it was stopped by means of a firearm gets completely ignored.
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Post by pettyluv on Mar 9, 2002 12:07:54 GMT -5
<<America has way more violence than the UK. I wonder why?? >> Could it be that we are a hell of a lot bigger than you as well? <<I just find it funny that all these anti-gunners fail to mention all the lives that are saved by firearms...>> Yes and I have little mentioned article that I posted over at Razz that I will post here. THE MISSING GUN
By JOHN R. LOTT, JR. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
January 25, 2002 -- ANOTHER school shooting occurred last week and the headlines were everywhere the same, from Australia to Nigeria. This time the shooting occurred at a university, the Appalachian Law School. As usual, there were calls for more gun control. Yet in this age of "gun-free school zones," one fact was missing from virtually all the news coverage: The attack was stopped by two students who had guns in their cars.
The fast responses of two male students, Mikael Gross, 34, and Tracy Bridges, 25, undoubtedly saved multiple lives.
Mikael was outside the law school and just returning from lunch when Peter Odighizuwa started his attack. Tracy was in a classroom waiting for class to start.
When the shots rang out, utter chaos erupted. Mikael said, "People were running everywhere. They were jumping behind cars, running out in front of traffic, trying to get away."
Mikael and Tracy did something quite different: Both immediately ran to their cars and got their guns. Mikael had to run about 100 yards to get to his car. Along with Ted Besen (who was unarmed), they approached Peter from different sides.
As Tracy explained it, "I aimed my gun at him, and Peter tossed his gun down. Ted approached Peter, and Peter hit Ted in the jaw. Ted pushed him back and we all jumped on."
What is so remarkable is that out of 280 separate news stories (from a computerized Nexis-Lexis search) in the week after the event, just four stories mentioned that the students who stopped the attack had guns.
Only two local newspapers (the Richmond Times-Dispatch and the Charlotte Observer) mentioned that the students actually pointed their guns at the attacker.
Much more typical was the scenario described by the Washington Post, where the heroes had simply "helped subdue" the killer. The New York Times noted only that the attacker was "tackled by fellow students."
Most in the media who discussed how the attack was stopped said: "students overpowered a gunman," "students ended the rampage by tackling him," "the gunman was tackled by four male students before being arrested," or "Students ended the rampage by confronting and then tackling the gunman, who dropped his weapon."
In all, 72, stories described how the attacker was stopped without mentioning that the student heroes had guns.
Unfortunately, the coverage in this case was not unusual. In the other public school shootings where citizens with guns have stopped attacks, rarely do more than one percent of the news stories mention that citizens with guns stopped the attacks.
Many people find it hard to believe that research shows that there are 2 million defensive gun uses each year. After all, if these events were really happening, wouldn't we hear about them on the news? But when was the last time you saw a story on the national evening news (or even the local news) about a citizen using his gun to stop a crime?
This misreporting actually endangers people's lives. By selectively reporting the news and turning a defensive gun use story into one where students merely "overpowered a gunman" the media gives misleading impressions of what works when people are confronted by violence.
Research consistently shows that having a gun is the safest way to respond to any type of criminal attack, especially these multiple victim shootings.
John Lott is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and the author of "More Guns, Less Crime." nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/38115.htm
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Post by -*- Little Miss Strawberry -*- on Mar 10, 2002 9:19:51 GMT -5
<<<Oh, also lilmissstrawberry, thanks for completely ignoring my post to you. I don't expect you to reply to this one either.>>>
I don't have the time to read each thread and each answer one by one, so apologies if it angered you for me not replying. Don't get so cross just because someone doesn't answer your post!
<<<America has way more violence than the UK. I wonder why?? >>> <<<Could it be that we are a hell of a lot bigger than you as well?>>>
Yes yes yes whatever, I was only suggesting something!
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Mar 19, 2002 13:55:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. True, the US has more violence. As to why is anyone's guess. Some say the media, some say the deterioration of a general respect for others. Maybe a parting from religious values, an increasing self-centered, stay-out-of-my-way attitude that is being forced on everyone. I'd say it's an uneven mix of all of it.
The UK has strict weapons laws that would not work here. What we don't need are more gunlaws. There are over 20,000 gun laws on the books now, but they are so full of holes and provisions that they are useless. They punish the law abiding citizen and hunter, but they completely fail to hinder or stop the criminal who can buy a gun from the trunk of a car for $50.00 and not have to fill out any forms and wait.
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Post by Ich Liebe Rammstein on Mar 26, 2002 19:02:57 GMT -5
Its not the gun's 'fault' its the person who owns/uses it..Guns are not harmful unless you them improperly. Its also not the fault of the gun if small child gets ahold of it and shoots themselves or someone else. Its the owner of the gun for not putting it away so they cant find it. But thats juz what I think . ~~~~~~Heather,(Edward Furlong,Mike Shinoda,Chester Bennington,KidRock & Joe C. LOVER!!!!!! Linkin Park RULES!!!!!!)
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Post by sunny.side.up on Mar 31, 2002 14:55:26 GMT -5
Where I live, owning a gun is illegal (in most cases). And here, the amount of violence leading to death is 5 times lower than in the USA (relatively). I think that does tell us something.
~*Esther*~
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Post by pettyluv on Mar 31, 2002 15:05:42 GMT -5
^^But the thing is, most violent gun crimes in the US are carried out by people who do not legally have the guns. Many of the guns obtained by criminals are bought off the black market. Why should law-abiding gun owners be punished because of a criminals actions?
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Post by x n0ise on Apr 1, 2002 22:02:50 GMT -5
Well, it's not like the guns get up by themselves and hurt people....it's the people that hurt people. So if guns are banned, I guess every other weapon would have to be banned too! What next? Are they going to try to ban the FORK? Yeesh.
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Post by pixiestix868 on Apr 4, 2002 13:43:40 GMT -5
just because someone has a gun doesn't mean that they're going to go around shooting people. its the persons choice. you can't blame an inanimate object for you're desicion to kill someone. and also guns aren't the only things that people use to cause violence. if we got rid of everything that could possibly be used as a weapon there wouldn't be anything left. everything has the potential to cause harm, are we going to get rid of them too?
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Post by Ich Liebe Rammstein on Apr 4, 2002 20:53:57 GMT -5
^^^^^^ Exactly. (Along with many others here.) I mean,scissors can/and are used as violence,but theyre allowed at school,(even though they probably couldnt do much harm,though I did cut my finger open in the 1st grade... and other objects,you just need to use them properly and be careful,and nothing can go wrong.
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Post by .Hunting:High:and:Low. on Apr 4, 2002 21:38:37 GMT -5
^^ Agreed. I knew people in the 3rd grade who stapled their finger (I never knew exactly how that was accomplished. ). Maybe we should ban staplers because they can harm kids. Sheesh.
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