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Post by 80s Child on Jan 15, 2003 16:23:28 GMT -5
Knowing two bad homosexual people is not a true representation of how homosexuals really are. To my way of thinking, you are making blind judgements on something you clearly know nothing about. Being homosexual is who you're attracted to, that is all. It has nothing to do with being a good person or a bad person. Homosexuals are humans, and of course, there are good and bad humans. You wouldn't say all heterosexuals are bad people based on the actions of one, so why say that about homosexuals? All gay men are NOT just out for sex, contrary to popular belief. Wow... I can't believe people still believe these ancient stereotypes. Toxic, I dare you to go out and go to a meeting of a Gay-Straight Alliance or something similar. Get to know the people there and realize that they probably are good people and just want support, not hate. About the gender thing, I said usually because there are always exceptions. It is just as incorrect to say that every homosexual does not have issues with their gender as it is to say they all do. It's just another form of stereotyping.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jan 16, 2003 8:26:48 GMT -5
I knew alot more that two of them. Those were the "stars."
All gay men are NOT just out for sex, contrary to popular belief. Wow... I can't believe people still believe these ancient stereotypes.
They certainly are out for something, they don't go to the bars for a Coke. As to ancinet stereotypes, must be a reason they exist.
Toxic, I dare you to go out and go to a meeting of a Gay-Straight Alliance or something similar. Get to know the people there and realize that they probably are good people and just want support, not hate.
Whose talking about hate? Now whose doing the stereotyping? The support is partly what keeps gays from changing. Most are very unhappy with what they go through and know there is something that is not right. The death rate, drug abuse, and alcoholism of homosexuals is very high. It is not because they are being marginalized by society. It is because they are being "encouraged" not to try to find a way out of it.
In our rush to accept every freaking idea that comes along, we have to accept it, or face the wrath of those who have been deluded in to thinking they have reached some high plateu of thinking and acceptance, when the reality is, they could care less like everyone else.
About the gender thing, I said usually because there are always exceptions. It is just as incorrect to say that every homosexual does not have issues with their gender as it is to say they all do. It's just another form of stereotyping.
There are "male" and "female" counterparts in a homo-realtionship. The butch and the femme, the "man" and the "girly" man. It like the Intern from the Jay Leno show, who is disturbingly efeminate. I mean "he's" more girly than any girl. That is not normal, too bad.
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Post by 80s Child on Jan 16, 2003 11:36:16 GMT -5
Being effeminate has nothing to do with being gay. I know a guy who is *very* effeminate, to the point where many people have stereotyped him as gay, but he has a massive crush on a girl. Hell, my own brother acts extremely sensitive and effeminate, but yet, is the most woman-crazy man I've ever known in my life (he doesn't lack morals or anything... he's respectful of all women, and he's handed that down to me). I also happen to know several gay men, none of whom are very effeminate. I also know quite a few lesbians and bisexuals, and hardly any of them are butch. And if homosexuals are suicidal, have high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, etc. (as you say), it is NOT because what they are doing is wrong. Rather, they have been taught that it is wrong by a society that believes in pushing morals down people's throats. Acceptance is a key way to preventing these things from happening. Anyway, we are now *way* off-topic in this thread. I suggest we continue the discussion about marriage and adoption (just a suggestion)... EDIT: Wait I misread you (sorry about that). But I don't see what having roles in relationships has to do with not understanding your gender. Girls can act tough, and guys can act effeminate. It's not "being confused" by your gender, it's being yourself.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jan 16, 2003 13:01:52 GMT -5
And if homosexuals are suicidal, have high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, etc. (as you say), it is NOT because what they are doing is wrong.
Yes it is.
Rather, they have been taught that it is wrong by a society that believes in pushing morals down people's throats.
Well we certainly don't want to teach right and wrong, that would be . . . bad. Acceptance is what is screwing people up into thinking what is right is bad and what is wrong is good.
Acceptance is a key way to preventing these things from happening.
Society is now more pro-gay than ever, and that's a problem because there is no motivation to change. When a gay feels uncomfortable with his/her/hiermself those who think they are "openminded" and "enlightened" shout the person down into not changing because of some loose idea that it brings diversity. But the gay still doesn't like it. Not all gays are like Jack on that stupid show, or Rosie. Very far from it.
And gays ARE accepted, just not thier lifestyle.
Anyway, we are now *way* off-topic in this thread. I suggest we continue the discussion about marriage and adoption (just a suggestion).
Fair enough, gays should neither be married or adopt. They do not keep partners for very long and cannot supply a healthy environment for the child. Two dads, two moms, doesn't work and will never work no matter what Modernist Social Engineers say.
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Post by ThaIceLady on Jan 16, 2003 13:23:11 GMT -5
Yes, I do think lesbians and gays, should be allowed to marry and adopt.
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Post by 80s Child on Jan 16, 2003 16:09:33 GMT -5
Well, Toxic, that's your opinion, but I have to say I wholeheartedly disagree, and always will.
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Post by Stepharoola on Jan 16, 2003 23:17:55 GMT -5
I've sported my opinion in here before (as funkygirlk16) and I just have to say that I honestly do not know if they should or not.
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Post by Cassiopeia on Jan 16, 2003 23:36:06 GMT -5
>>Well we certainly don't want to teach right and wrong, that would be . . . bad. Acceptance is what is screwing people up into thinking what is right is bad and what is wrong is good.<<
I completely disagree. What's wrong with two people being in a relationship when they are in love? It doesn't hurt anyone. In fact, they are the ones who are hurt because some people think they are less than human for something they can't control. You can't chose whom you are attracted to, so why shouldn't you have relationships with the type of people you like?
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Post by 80s Child on Jan 17, 2003 0:43:29 GMT -5
^^Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make. Who are YOU to decide that homosexuals are wrong in what they do? And please, don't give me the whole Bible spiel. Use arguments that apply to everyone please.
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Post by Stepharoola on Jan 17, 2003 0:52:31 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this for about, eh, and hour now and I think maybe they should. These people, if they're in love, and can support the child... why not? They're human too... and you can't help who you fall in love with.
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Post by Toxic-Avenger on Jan 17, 2003 11:41:25 GMT -5
Exactly. That's the point I was trying to make. Who are YOU to decide that homosexuals are wrong in what they do? And please, don't give me the whole Bible spiel. Use arguments that apply to everyone please.
Whose doing the stereotying now? Lol! And who am I? The point is all the research being done to show that this is a bad idea. The only ones that will benefit are people taking up the torch but don't have to deal with it directly. You don't want the "Bible spiel?" You mod a religion board, so you are well aware of how important religion is to everyone's lives. But as to your request I give you:
Children raised by homosexual parents are more likely to experience gender and sexual confusion. Don’t believe that? Keep reading, this is science, not religious. They are more likely to become promiscuous and more likely to experiment with homosexual behavior. And are at greater risk of losing a parent to AIDS, substance abuse or suicide. Children raised in stable, married, heterosexual homes do better than children raised in any other type of household. They are healthier physically and emotionally, do better academically, experience less poverty and commit fewer crimes.
Children need both a mother and a father. Studies done by Sociologists of Rutgers University have extensive research on the different functions that mothers and fathers play in their children's lives. The studies show that while fathers tend to stress competition, challenge, initiative and risk-taking, mothers stress emotional security and personal safety. When disciplining, mothers provide important flexibility and sympathy, while fathers provide predictability and consistency. By nature, same-sex couples are unable to provide one-half of this.
The research comparing homosexual parenting and heterosexual parenting are inconclusive. There is scientific evidence that children need a mother and father for proper socialization.
Most of the studies done that favor same sex parenting were done with a tiny control group that wasn’t representative of US population and was full of flaws. There were (convieninetly?) missing or inadequate comparison groups. Some of the research subjects volunteered for the studies and some were allowed to recruit other participants. This influenced the wish to influence public policy in support of homosexual families. For these reasons, the studies are full of bad science.
There is always a limitation of these studies, most rely on small samples of White, middle-class, previously married lesbians and their children. One can’t distinguish the impact of parent's sexual orientation on a child because most homosexual child-rearing homes didn't start out fresh from birth, but are clouded by the dynamics of divorce, re-mating and step-parenting, which has its own problems.
And there are separate issues related to gender of the parents. Many are sympathetic with homosexual parenting, but disagree with the claims that there are no differences between the children of heterosexual parents and children of gay parents.
There have been shown problems of gender identity and sexuality might be greater for children raised by homosexual parents than is recognized. 64 percent of young adults raised by lesbian mothers reported considering having same-sex relationships. Only 17 percent of young adults in heterosexual families reported the same thing.
Tell me again that same sex parents do not influence the sexual orientation of hetero-parents? Some admits to their own reports that the small and nonrepresentative samples studied and the relatively young age of children suggest reserve. But they ignore their own caution and state that everything works out great for children raised by homosexual parents.
Children need a mother and a father and there are mountains of social science research supporting that children who are raised with their married mother and father do far better in every measure of well-being than children who grow up in any other family situation. Rarely are social experiments for the sake of it, conclusive as it is on this point.
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Post by Stepharoola on Jan 17, 2003 13:27:45 GMT -5
<<<Children raised by homosexual parents are more likely to experience gender and sexual confusion. Don’t believe that? Keep reading, this is science, not religious. They are more likely to become promiscuous and more likely to experiment with homosexual behavior. And are at greater risk of losing a parent to AIDS, substance abuse or suicide. Children raised in stable, married, heterosexual homes do better than children raised in any other type of household. They are healthier physically and emotionally, do better academically, experience less poverty and commit fewer crimes. >>>
I know lots of people who are poor, and they were raised by a mother and a father. I know almost all of my friends are in sexual confusion right now (thats normal!) I know @ least 6 people who have lost SOMEONE to aids, I know lots of people to substance abuse (umm...12 i think) and I absoutley know people in heterosexual homes that have broke the law... and commited plenty of crimes.
The point I'm trying to make is, you can live in a heterosexual home and still grow up poor, breaking the law, and homosexual parents, or not, that's those kids choice to do that...
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Post by 80s Child on Jan 17, 2003 13:51:12 GMT -5
Toxic, I am fully aware that religion is very important to many people, but this is the Law board, not the Religion board. If we were debating the morality of homosexuality, then that would be for the Religion board. But I wasn't addressing that comment specifically to you, otherwise I would have said "Toxic, please don't give me the Bible spiel". Rather, it was directed to anyone in this thread who believes that homosexuality is wrong. "64 percent of young adults raised by lesbian mothers reported considering having same-sex relationships. Only 17 percent of young adults in heterosexual families reported the same thing." Just what is so WRONG about considering a lesbian relationship? If they're just THINKING about it, I don't see what the big deal is. And even if they act on it, are they hurting anyone else? (besides the usual relationship drama, love triangles etc. which happen in heterosexual relationships too). I just don't see why you think homosexuality is so bad. And even if it is "bad", why can't they be equal to us and have all the same rights as we do? And anyway, just because a couple is homosexual does not mean they don't have friends and relatives of both genders. Those friends/relatives can provide positive role models for the child. A homosexual couple is not necessarily a disaster for a child. And as for social science research, as a social science student myself, I can tell you that there's always a margin of error in every study. No study in social science is 100% accurate, no matter how well it's been taken and the procedures have been followed. Anyway, I'm just rambling now, so I'll stop.
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Post by Cassiopeia on Jan 17, 2003 15:04:46 GMT -5
I really don't care that children with homosexual families have a greater chance of being homosexual themselves. Why? Because I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay. Stupid people get married all the time, and idiots are more likely to have idiot children. Should that be illegal too?
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Post by Stepharoola on Jan 17, 2003 15:08:25 GMT -5
^lol.
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