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Post by Frosty The Ice-Bitch on May 24, 2003 23:02:49 GMT -5
I know there is already a thread about Atheism, but I was wondering, If you believe in God, any god or gods for that fact then, why? And if you don't then why?
Personaly, I believe that there is some sort of a god, It just seems strange that most cultures have a higher power of some sort, If there wasn't then why do so many different cultures believe in one. I know you can't see or hear it or anything but you can feel it's there.
So what are your thoughts?
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Post by strangelilboi on May 25, 2003 5:33:21 GMT -5
the idea of God is a Path to Him that we need to seek and find on our own. It is this mountain that we climb that makes us worthy of Enlightenment and spiritual satisfaction.
It is not the end product that leads us to this happiness and it isnt following footsteps blindly and often in the dark that makes us better people, for ourselves and others. It is the the constant striving and the selfcontrol, the self-produced resistance to temptation - however hard it may be. God has given us a brilliant mind and given us parents and a atmosphere to teach us wrong from right. If that is not available, He shows us the Way.
Everything in life happens for a reason. Gods reason. If we make the right choices, we will lead ourselves to Him. If we make the wrong turn, we must repent and then He will lead us back to the right path.
At the end of the day, a true heaven can only be made if we are as good people as we can be. But we are only human, as God made us and we nee to make ourselves better NOT FOR FEAR OF HIM OR HELL, but for love of him and ourselves. True happiness and satisfaction only come from within oneself; God is but your teacher.
God speaks to those who listen. It is not that you are not worthy, it is that you are not willing
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Post by paradoxPanda on May 25, 2003 10:36:06 GMT -5
I don't believe in god, because A) I've never had any reason to, and B) if there is an all-loving god, then he shouldn't let so many people suffer. I don't care if it's part of a master plan, it's not right. And I've always felt that not every kind of adversity will truly make you stronger.
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Post by m on May 27, 2003 6:47:11 GMT -5
I believe not only IN God, but I believe God. I believe that He created everything and us. The reason is, the intricacies of the Earth’s creatures. Surely it is strange that a beating heart or the genius of the eye is an accident. Then there’s the universe itself, with violent processes going on, yet without these processes – an exploding star depositing the heavy metals needed for a life-bearing planet. Look at the colors of the sky near dusk, or your own hand as you type. God exists inside of us, as well as outside and sees all.
As to why God lets bad things happen, it depends. Sometimes bad things happen to strengthen you, build your faith; someone close to you comes back from the brink of death. Some bad things happen because they do. You blow a tire on the way to the dance, that’s life, things happen. Perhaps you should have made sure there was enough air in the tire, which you should have done anyway. Still other things happen because whether we believe it or not, and it doesn’t matter if you don’t or I do; believe anything, because it’s still going to happen. We live in a world that we not only can see, but a world that surrounds us that we cannot see. If God lifted the veil from our eyes to see the demons, Heaven, Hell, and angels that surround us and everything, we’d probably freak, shriek and die right on the spot.
Why do people suffer with an all loving God? God will give us the resources to help and do these things. But he wants us to participate in His Lordship. God doesn’t force himself on the unwilling. He wants to hang with His people is really what it comes down to. But this is how we respond. How many times does God tell us: Feed the poor, help the wounded and down and out, visit the prisoner, love an enemy, treat others the way we would want to be treated, do a little extra work for your friends or parents, stop the back biting and fighting?
But what is our response? “Sorry, too busy, can’t find the time, what’s in it for me?” What do I gain? It’s my life, I’ll do what I want. Gee why is there so much suffering, get away from me, get a job! I wish God would help that person.
We want churches to do the dirty work, why don’t we help that church? Because we don’t want people to force their religion on us. Or we complain that the Government isn’t supposed to help religious institutions, or wonder why churches need so much money to keep its doors open. We wonder where God is when the suffering starts, yet we want him removed from our lives and Government. We cry out for help when 9-11’s happen, but wish people wouldn’t use “religion as a crutch.” We don’t want prayer in schools, but worry about more Columbines.
We complain that people don’t give a crap about each other, but then make fun of those who try to help someone who isn’t normal. Make sense? I hope not. We pray fervently to God to pass a test we should have studied for, then when we squeak by it’s, “Okay thanks God, you can leave now.” “You should pray that this happens.” “But I don’t want to “bother” God with my problems.” God, why are you always so silent in my life when I ask for your help?
We ask for miracles from God, then we’ll believe in Him. Christ did that, he fed 5,000 people on little bits of food, He healed the sick and changed water into wine. Sure Jesus had a lot of groupies, but they just wanted to see Him do more cool stuff. The miracles didn’t matter. People were quite impressed, but they just wanted to be entertained. They didn’t fall to their knees and bow before God as they perhaps should have. This was God, who was right before their eyes. He did miracles! He healed blind people and all He got was: “Dude! That was cool” All the miracles did was attract crowds and attention, but did little to make people repent or encourage long-term faith. Jesus wanted obedience, not sideshow gawkers.
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Post by -*- Little Miss Strawberry -*- on May 29, 2003 11:06:00 GMT -5
^ *clap* A lot of that makes sense.
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Post by Medley on May 31, 2003 5:16:32 GMT -5
Eh....I don't know if I believe in God per se. Sometimes I think I believe in something. I have this faith that maybe the universe knows what it's doing. Other times, when I see war and hatred and apathy and greed and selfishness, I'm not so sure. And since those things have been in ascendancy lately, I'm not too much into the faith groove at the moment. But hey, maybe we need like an explosion of that kind of stuff to get rid of it. Maybe when the effects of all the hate and war and greed comes back and bites us in the nether regions, we'll be the better off for it. I seriously hope so, but knowing humans we'll just respond with more hatred and war. If there is a God, he/she/it is probably severely disappointed with us.
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Post by It's~A~Nova on Jun 8, 2003 16:56:53 GMT -5
Though I haven't figured out all I believe in yet, I do know I believe in a higher power, namely God. My reasons for this are similiar to what One Big Rush said in his first paragraph, the way things are and work are just too complicated to be just an accident.
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Post by Keista1 on Jun 18, 2003 21:31:08 GMT -5
One Big Rush you're my hero. You took everything I've ever wanted to say to someone about my faith, and put it in a nutshell. You're a Godsend!
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Post by m on Jun 20, 2003 6:41:54 GMT -5
Thanks Keista1, I think it's always a good idea to put thoughts like that together once in awhile. I would suggest you read, The Jesus I Never Knew, by Phillip Yancey. It will change the way you view and relate to Jesus and it's an eye-opener.
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Post by strangelilboi on Jun 21, 2003 10:27:18 GMT -5
seems u require a clap on the back for that ...yeah there u go. Shame more people dont post in this part of the forum.
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Post by paradoxPanda on Jun 21, 2003 19:59:08 GMT -5
Surely it is strange that a beating heart or the genius of the eye is an accident.
But then, if these things are all part of God's work, why is it that some people are punished to not have these things?
Although I'm sure you won't understand it, I've never had a reason to believe in God. Maybe one day I will; I like to leave my options open.
t what is our response? “Sorry, too busy, can’t find the time, what’s in it for me?” What do I gain? It’s my life, I’ll do what I want. Gee why is there so much suffering, get away from me, get a job! I wish God would help that person.
While I respect the sense of that, you can't seriously pretend that all human suffering is caused by others' unwillingness to believe in God. What about suffering caused by simple, accidental misjudgement? Or stupid, but well-intended actions?
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Post by strangelilboi on Jun 22, 2003 16:57:54 GMT -5
God creatred us to be human. He created us to have faults and to learn from them. He created us to learn from our faults and learn that we are not perfect.
This realisation is what brings us closer to Him. It makes us realise that we need Him. For some people, thinking otherwise leads them so far astray that they belive they are above everyoen and everything.
This leads to sin, often in the purest of forms. I know it all depends how we define sin and what IS a 'bad thing'. But there again, that is why we need God.
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Post by paradoxPanda on Jun 22, 2003 21:10:03 GMT -5
It makes us realise that we need Him.
I would never call myself, or anything else, perfect, but that hasn't ever made me feel the need for God in my life, has it?
For some people, thinking otherwise leads them so far astray that they belive they are above everyoen and everything. Yeah, there's really a LOT of evidence for a connection between religion and humility. I'd love to see you prove it. Thinking that there isn't an almighty being hasn't made me any less humble, nor any of the other atheists I know. Yet religion does seem to give people who believe it a sense that they are superior to those who don't, no?
This leads to sin, often in the purest of forms.
Such as acts of violence from one religious extremist against another, caused by the belief that one is superior to the other.
I know it all depends how we define sin and what IS a 'bad thing'. But there again, that is why we need God. A sin/'bad thing' can be defined in a lot of ways, I would say it's anything that causes harm. Do you really think that having a list of moral do's and don'ts is necessary or helpful? Humans seem to be built in with the idea that there are certain values we should uphold and teach to others, religion has just been an outlet for how to impress those values.
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Post by m on Jun 23, 2003 8:08:10 GMT -5
But then, if these things are all part of God's work, why is it that some people are punished to not have these things?
It's not that they are punished, it's that God sometimes shows us that life isn't all that bad as we can make it out to be. During the time of Christ, He healed the sick and blind to show people His power. Many didn't care even after seeing the healing. Same with a disabled person, I have never met stronger people in my life than some one who has alot of health issues to deal with. They act like there's nothing wrong and it's the attitude we should take, enjoy life, because we only get one chance. It's not that God is punishing them, it God showing us how we aught to be, and what better way to do that than to use a person who is just like you.
Although I'm sure you won't understand it, I've never had a reason to believe in God. Maybe one day I will; I like to leave my options open.
Fair enough, but understand that a beleif in God has been around for several thousand years, and any amount of rethinking only reinforces what people beleive. Christianity for example, is outlawed in some countries. Instead of dying out, it grows, even flourishes. People just don't lay their lives on the line for a concept.
While I respect the sense of that, you can't seriously pretend that all human suffering is caused by others' unwillingness to believe in God. What about suffering caused by simple, accidental misjudgement? Or stupid, but well-intended actions?
Then that's just it, a simple accidental misjudgement is a simple accidental misjudgement. You screwed up, now clean it up and move on. It's okay, it teaches you not to make the same mistake again. Sometimes it IS God, and sometimes it's just "the way life is."
Stupid but well-intended actions, never have an ultimate consequense that's negative. Look at it this way, you see a homeless guy on the street, and you are moved to give him some money because he said he was hungry. You give him the money and he blows it on a bottle of whiskey. You tried to help and that's what you should do. It's HE, the whisky drinker that made the bad desision, and that's on his head, not yours.
Yet religion does seem to give people who believe it a sense that they are superior to those who don't, no?
That is true with many, but it's not the way it's supposed to be. We are to humble ourselves before God, in that we, we are not to think we are better than someone else.
Such as acts of violence from one religious extremist against another, caused by the belief that one is superior to the other.
You are looking at extreme behaviour and such. Know that it was Man that has hijacked religion and used it for his own gains. The Salem Witch trials had nothing to do with God, the Inquisition had nothing to do with God, the Pilgrims beleived in God, yet were persecuted in a religious country which is why they left. You have Militant Muslims, and you have Christians that think EVERYTHING is bad, and the only way to live life is to stay home.
Do you really think that having a list of moral do's and don'ts is necessary or helpful? Humans seem to be built in with the idea that there are certain values we should uphold and teach to others, religion has just been an outlet for how to impress those values.
We would be alot worse off had religion never taken place. Whether we like it or not, we all follow some sort of belief system. Laws and ideas are based on religious principals. Each of us has a spiritual need that we try to fill. Humans don't have those values, we really don't. Look at a child, we tell them not to do something and they do it anyway. We tell them other things and they almost do it to see what they can get away with.
Take a look at these reality shows coming out lately. Left on our own we will eventually, cheat and edge the other person out. These are just small versions of what our society is really like. In fact, without any spiritual guidance, we as a society will collapse, it's happening now.
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Post by paradoxPanda on Jul 23, 2003 18:40:42 GMT -5
<<We would be alot worse off had religion never taken place. Whether we like it or not, we all follow some sort of belief system. >>
Okay, I disagree with all of that. If all there was to human nature was greed, we wouldn't have accepted religion at all. As humans, we want what is best for ourselves, but we also have a lot of good traits. We DO need to teach ethics from one generation to the next, we just don't need religion to help us do it.
<< Each of us has a spiritual need that we try to fill.>>
Been there, tried that, and while I'm still working out what I need, I know now that I'm happier without religion than with it. Every time I try to believe in a higher power, I've ended up disenchanted and disappointed. It's taken me a while, but I've realized that the things I do believe in give me all the strength I need.
<<Humans don't have those values, we really don't. Look at a child, we tell them not to do something and they do it anyway.>>
Not always true.
<<Take a look at these reality shows coming out lately. Left on our own we will eventually, cheat and edge the other person out. These are just small versions of what our society is really like. In fact, without any spiritual guidance, we as a society will collapse, it's happening now. >>
So, our society needs outlets for its greed and brutality. Maybe we'd be better off if we accepted that there is a certain level of immorality in each of us, instead of squishing ourselves with restrictive religion.
Every generation in society has thought that they were the most corrupt generation yet.
I wonder how you can believe that any one religion is the true one, when there are so many that so many people believe is true, and when so many have risen and fallen.
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